OT:College Is For Suckers

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Submitted by sjk on December 2, 2012 - 9:13pm

Sent this to a friend today and his response..........
(Great article. It’s a bubble, no doubt. Love the pushback coming from the university set.Call missing person and give my name the day Obama announces a federal bailout for in-debt college students.)

November 30, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/fashio...
Saying No to College
By ALEX WILLIAMS

BENJAMIN GOERING does not look like Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, talk like him or inspire the same controversy. But he does apparently think like him.

Two years ago, Mr. Goering was a sophomore at the University of Kansas, studying computer science and philosophy and feeling frustrated in crowded lecture halls where the professors did not even know his name.

“I wanted to make Web experiences,” said Mr. Goering, now 22, and create “tools that make the lives of others better.”

So in the spring of 2010, Mr. Goering took the same leap as Mr. Zuckerberg: he dropped out of college and moved to San Francisco to make his mark. He got a job as a software engineer at a social-software company, Livefyre, run by a college dropout, where the chief technology officer at the time and a lead engineer were also dropouts. None were sheepish about their lack of a diploma. Rather, they were proud of their real-life lessons on the job.

“Education isn’t a four-year program,” Mr. Goering said. “It’s a mind-set.”

The idea that a college diploma is an all-but-mandatory ticket to a successful career is showing fissures. Feeling squeezed by a sagging job market and mounting student debt, a groundswell of university-age heretics are pledging allegiance to new groups like UnCollege, dedicated to “hacking” higher education. Inspired by billionaire role models, and empowered by online college courses, they consider themselves a D.I.Y. vanguard, committed to changing the perception of dropping out from a personal failure to a sensible option, at least for a certain breed of risk-embracing maverick.

Risky? Perhaps. But it worked for the founders of Twitter, Tumblr and a little company known as Apple.

When Mr. Goering was wrestling with his decision, he woke up every morning to a ringtone mash-up that blended electronic tones with snippets of Steve Jobs’s 2005 commencement address at Stanford University, in which he advised, “love what you do,” “don’t settle.” Mr. Goering took that as a sign.

“It’s inspiring that his dropping out basically had no effect, positive or negative, on the work and company and values he could create,” he said of the late Apple co-founder.

In that oft-quoted address, Mr. Jobs called his decision to drop out of Reed College “one of the best decisions I ever made.” Mr. Jobs’s “think different” approach to education (backpacking through India, dining with Hare Krishnas) is portrayed in countless hagiographies as evidence of his iconoclastic genius.

Indeed, ambitious young people who consider dropping out of college a smart option have a different set of role models from those in the 1960s, who were basically stuck with the acid-guru Timothy Leary and his “turn on, tune in, drop out” ramblings. Nowadays, popular culture is portraying dropouts as self-made zillionaires whose decision to spurn the “safe” route (academic conformity) is akin to lighting out for the territories to strike gold.

Bill Gates dropped out of college. So did Michael Dell. So did Mr. Zuckerberg, who made the Forbes billionaires list at 23.

Mr. Zuckerberg’s story is familiar to anyone who has seen the 2010 film “The Social Network,” in which Harvard seems little more than a glorified networking party for him. While the other Phi Beta Kappas are trudging through their Aristophanes, his character is hitting the parties, making contacts and making history. The dropout-mogul-as-rock-star meme will get a further boost with coming Steve Jobs biopics, including “Jobs,” starring Ashton Kutcher, and another one in the works written by Aaron Sorkin, who wrote the screenplay for “The Social Network.”

Such attitudes are trickling down to the small screen, too. In a recent episode of the Fox sitcom “The Mindy Project,” Mindy Kaling’s character, a doctor, grills a teenager about his plans for college. “I’m not going to college,” he tells her. “Why should I load up on debt just to binge drink for four years when I could just create an app that nets me all the money I’ll ever need?” Such tales play well in the eyes of millennials, a generation hailed for their entrepreneurial acumen and financial pragmatism. Why pay money if you can make money?

No wonder the swashbuckling Web subculture is suddenly percolating with whiz-kid programmers thinking like “one and done” college hoopsters, who stick around campus only long enough to showcase their skills (and meet National Basketball Association draft requirements) before bolting for pro riches. Tech-start-ups have their own versions of Carmelo Anthony: folks like Jack Dorsey and Evan Williams of Twitter, and Kevin Rose of Digg. (Meanwhile, David Karp of Tumblr dropped out of high school.)

“Here in Silicon Valley, it’s almost a badge of honor,” said Mick Hagen, 28, who dropped out of Princeton in 2006 and moved to San Francisco, where he started Undrip, a mobile app. He is now recruiting from the undergraduate ranks, he said, which is becoming a trend among other tech companies, too. In his view, dropouts are freethinkers, risk-takers. They have not been tainted by groupthink.

“College puts a lot of constraints, a lot of limitations around what you can and can’t do,” Mr. Hagen said. “Some people, they want to stretch their arms, get out and create more, do more.”

Even the staunchest critics of college concede that a diploma is still necessary for many professions — law and medicine, clearly, and in many cases, for a Fortune 500 executive, too. But that’s the point: how many more lawyers and middle managers do we need?

“College is training for managerial work, and the economy doesn’t need that many managers,” said Michael Ellsberg, the author of “The Education of Millionaires: Everything You Won’t Learn In College About How to Be Successful.”

Mr. Ellsberg, 35, graduated from Brown University and spent years trying to translate his expertise in post-colonial critical theory into a paying career. So his book tries to impart real-world skills, like salesmanship and networking, which he argues are crucial as white-collar jobs are being downsized or shipped to Bangalore. The future, he added, belongs to job creators, even if the only job they create is their own.

“I’m not saying you have to be Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs,” Mr. Ellsberg said. “I know people with dog-walking businesses who make six figures.”

Mr. Ellsberg joined a growing chorus of academic dissenters, who have made it fashionable to question the value of a college degree. Last year, an anonymous academic who called himself Professor X, published “In the Basement of the Ivory Tower,” which argued that future police officers and nurses need not be force-fed Shakespeare.

Nikhil Goyal, a 17-year-old high school student in Long Island, published “One Size Does Not Fit All: A Student’s Assessment of School,” contending that some students are better served by ditching lecture halls and treating the world as their classroom. The debate has inspired articles in The Huffington Post and New York magazine.

Perhaps most famously, Peter A. Thiel, the billionaire co-founder of PayPal, in 2010 started his Thiel Fellowship program, which pays students under 20 years old $100,000 apiece to bag college and pursue their own ventures. “People are being conned into thinking that this credential is the one thing you need to do better in life,” he said on “60 Minutes” last spring, adding, “they typically are worse off, because they have amassed all this debt.”

For such critics, the explosion in student debt is the next subprime crisis. There is now $1 trillion in outstanding student debt, with $117 billion tacked on last year alone, according to calculations by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Tuition levels have quadrupled since the early ’80s, according to the Student Body Scholarship Association.

These figures rankle James Altucher, a prominent investor, entrepreneur and pundit who self-published a book called “40 Alternatives to College.” “College presidents now just arbitrarily think they can raise tuitions,” he said. “So what is happening is, rich people can still afford college, but poor people are borrowing this money and sacrificing their future for a lifetime of debt.”

Such opinions have met considerable headwind. Jacob Weisberg of Slate pounded Mr. Thiel over his “nasty” idea, which he argued is “diverting a generation of young people from the love of knowledge for its own sake and respect for middle-class values.”

Indeed, many educators dismiss the college-is-overrated debate as a dangerous fringe idea, and say the real challenge is that only 56 percent of students who enter a four-year institution finish within six years, according to a recent Harvard study. To them, the statistic represents a crisis, not a sign of progress.

“The reality is, there is not a declining demand for college and university,” said Richard Arum, a New York University sociology professor who co-wrote “Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses.” “There is an increasing demand, and that is not just true for America, but for all the world. Increasingly, you need a diploma to compete for the jobs that are out there.”

The Ivory Tower apostates are undeterred. “I think kids with a five-year head start on equally ambitious peers will be ahead in both education and income,” said Mr. Altucher, who regrets graduating from Cornell. “They could go to a library, read a book a day, take courses online. There are thousands of ways.”

Natalie Warne found one of them. A poised 22-year-old from Chicago, she stepped off the college track after high school to “hack” her education, which to her meant traveling the country to protest atrocities in war-torn Uganda.

It started with a gap-year internship after high school with a charity called Invisible Children, where she acquired experience in public speaking, event coordinating and film editing (she eventually appeared on “Oprah”). Finding satisfaction, she stretched her gap year into two, and two became three. While speaking at a TED conference, she met Dale J. Stephens, the founder of a group called UnCollege that champions “more meaningful” alternatives to college. Her plans for college are off for now.

“Experience has proved to be a far better teacher in my life than any book, classroom or educator,” she said.

UnCollege advocates a D.I.Y. approach to higher education and spreads the message through informational “hackademic camps.” “Hacking,” in the group’s parlance, can involve any manner of self-directed learning: travel, volunteer work, organizing collaborative learning groups with friends. Students who want to avoid $200,000 in student-loan debt might consider enrolling in a technology boot camp, where you can learn to write code in 8 to 10 weeks for about $10,000, Mr. Stephens said.

THEY can also nourish their minds from a growing menu of Internet classrooms, including the massive open online courses, or MOOCs, which stream classes from elite universities like Princeton. This guerrilla approach hits home with young people who came of age seeking out valuable content free on Napster and BitTorrent.

Mr. Stephens, a dropout from Hendrix College in Arkansas (he later earned a Thiel Fellowship), started UnCollege less than two years ago, and already its Web site attracts 20,000 unique visitors a month. “I get on scale of 10 to 15 e-mails a day from people who say something along lines of, ‘I thought I was the only one out there who thought about education like this, I don’t feel crazy anymore,’ ” he said.

There are other groups, too, like Enstitute, which offers two-year apprenticeships with entrepreneurs in lieu of college, and Zero Tuition College, an online support network for students looking for alternatives.

The goal is not to foment for a mass exodus from the ivy halls, Mr. Stephens said, but to open people’s minds to a different set of opportunities.

Sounds nice. But it is not an easy decision for students whose future is on the line. Jean Fan, a high school senior in San Mateo, Calif., is an editor for UnCollege, where she hopes to help inspire students to evolve “from passive to active learners.”

Even so, she is busy applying to elite universities right now. She recognizes the irony.

“In terms of grades and test scores, I’m one of the top students at school,” said Ms. Fan, 17. “College seemed like the obvious next step.”

She added, “Common sense, of course, is highly overrated.”

Submitted by outtamojo on December 2, 2012 - 9:34pm.

These guys just don't get it- college is for meeting chicks.

Submitted by flu on December 2, 2012 - 11:50pm.

There's one big difference.

The very tiny percentage of these people described in this article that dropped out of college are very very intelligent people who didn't need to go to college...

Most americans aren't like that.

Submitted by zk on December 2, 2012 - 11:47pm.

I don't find this article convincing at all.

While I agree that a young adult might learn more "out in the world" than at college, I'm not convinced that their job and financial prospects aren't better if they go to college.

For every Gates, Dell, or Zuckerberg there are a thousand Vincent Chus. Never heard of Vincent Chu? Of course not. He and thousands of other "mavericks" dropped out of or never went to college, and never hit it big with an app or anything else. Now they work at The Gap to pay the bills, and they're hoping to get into management some day.

When I was in high school (or college, I don't remember - either way, it was at least 30 years ago) one of my teachers said that college wasn't so much to learn things as to show prospective employers that you could do what it took to get into and then get through college (and, by extension, that you might have what it takes to do whatever job they were offering). Whether that's a good measuring stick or not is certainly debatable. The point is that, whether you learn anything useful or not, a college degree does improve your marketability as a prospective employee.

A college degree is certainly not a golden ticket. In fact, it's even less of a golden ticket than it was a decade or two ago. But it still (imho) offers the best chance of a decent-paying job.

Plus it's a great place to meet chicks.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on December 2, 2012 - 11:51pm.

and ponder existence.

Submitted by SK in CV on December 3, 2012 - 9:12am.

zk wrote:
I don't find this article convincing at all.

While I agree that a young adult might learn more "out in the world" than at college, I'm not convinced that their job and financial prospects aren't better if they go to college.

For every Gates, Dell, or Zuckerberg there are a thousand Vincent Chus. Never heard of Vincent Chu? Of course not. He and thousands of other "mavericks" dropped out of or never went to college, and never hit it big with an app or anything else. Now they work at The Gap to pay the bills, and they're hoping to get into management some day.

Plus it's a great place to meet chicks.

I agree with this. College isn't for everyone, but it's almost always better to have that degree than not have it.

Back in the old days, when I was in college, I had a friend who started and then dropped out. He had a part time job delivering lost luggage at the airport. Made tips and a little more than min wage. Then the guy who owned the company got busted for stealing shit out of the suitcases and the guy at the airport who was in charge of the operation offered him the contract because he was the 2nd in command. He was pretty rich compared to the rest of us. was 20 years old and making probably $22K a year plus tips. Owned a couple vans, had employees. Paid his own rent, funded his IRA every year, bought a porsche (ok, it was a 914, but it still said porsche on the insignia).

Ten years later, Charlie was still making $22K a year, had 3 van payments to make and was stressed beyond belief. Expenses went up and he had to withdraw his IRA money just to make ends meet. He was working 50+ hours a week and no time to meet any women. He wanted to do something else but didn't have any experience. and no degree. At 32, he caught some weird virus and died.

Times might be a little different now. But not that different.

Submitted by bearishgurl on December 3, 2012 - 9:40am.

FT college is the right thing to do for recent HS grads IF:

-they don't have any kids to support (if they do, then part-time college should be considered);

-they are not entering the military;

-they are in good enough health to complete all four years;

-they will never have to borrow to enroll or stay in college;

-they know what they want to major in;

-and, their major of choice is one in which they can easily get hired into FT employment (w/benefits) ... even if they have to relocate to do so.

Otherwise, it is huge waste of time and money and there is little chance of the student actually graduating with a bachelor's degree, IMO.

If the recent HS grad just wants to find "chicks" or get an MRS degree, it's MUCH cheaper to join match.com and/or hang out with their former HS "homies" while living in a parent's back bdrm and working at the Gap.

Submitted by meadandale on December 3, 2012 - 9:51am.

flu wrote:
There's one big difference.

The very tiny percentage of these people described in this article that dropped out of college are very very intelligent people who didn't need to go to college...

Most americans aren't like that.

^^^ This

The lazy, latte sipping hipsters living in their parent's basement complaining about getting a 40 hr/wk job aren't going to be the next Steve Jobs or Mark Z.

The one thing all of the people mentioned in the article all have in common? They are all type A personalities and would have been successful in any businesses INCLUDING tech...with or without college.

Submitted by Blogstar on December 3, 2012 - 9:57am.

I think I will start a website/movement called
"The Wise Slacker". So many people are so dumb at slacking, when potentially, it is a smart thing to do.

Submitted by no_such_reality on December 3, 2012 - 10:03am.

BG, you just described the primary problem with our education system.

It used to be a job training program.

It's now shifted to education for education sake. I can see some potential usefulness of italian cultural studies. Slightly more limited for italian languange or italian literature.

http://www.italian.ucla.edu/programs/gra...

But really, apply this across virtually any culture.

I'm not opposed to education, but I truely believe, 99% of us, need an education in practical skills to allow us to have productive jobs and should reserve the enrichment education to a more modest level of expense.

And when we decide to truely get serious about education, we'll separate the professional sports farm teams from the colleges.

Submitted by flu on December 3, 2012 - 11:19am.

meadandale wrote:
flu wrote:
There's one big difference.

The very tiny percentage of these people described in this article that dropped out of college are very very intelligent people who didn't need to go to college...

Most americans aren't like that.

^^^ This

The lazy, latte sipping hipsters living in their parent's basement complaining about getting a 40 hr/wk job aren't going to be the next Steve Jobs or Mark Z.

The one thing all of the people mentioned in the article all have in common? They are all type A personalities and would have been successful in any businesses INCLUDING tech...with or without college.

Nope. But they are the ones that most likely voted for prop 30...Well, because they don't have to pay for it.

Submitted by Rich Toscano on December 3, 2012 - 11:53am.

flu wrote:

Nope. But they are the ones that most likely voted for prop 30...Well, because they don't have to pay for it.

Threadjack alert! Everyone go back to the conversation about the value of college education, nothing to see here...

Submitted by spdrun on December 3, 2012 - 11:57am.

College is useful for meeting PEOPLE (not just chicks). Note that Zuckerberg laid the initial groundwork for FB while at college, and probably met some connections that were useful to him there as well.

It's also sad that the US puts a lot of emphasis on success in business, but not so much on basic scientific/medical research, non-I.T. engineering, and academic careers anymore. The world doesn't start and end at I.T. entrepreneurship despite what some people may think. It's a problem that the US lags behind the rest of the world in scientific research and in basic infrastructure.

Submitted by flu on December 3, 2012 - 12:17pm.

.

Submitted by Diego Mamani on December 3, 2012 - 1:42pm.

SK in CV wrote:
Then the guy who owned the company got busted for stealing shit out of the suitcases and the guy at the airport who was in charge of the operation offered him the contract because he was the 2nd in command. He was pretty rich compared to the rest of us. was 20 years old and making probably $22K a year plus tips. Owned a couple vans, had employees. Paid his own rent, funded his IRA every year, bought a porsche (ok, it was a 914, but it still said porsche on the insignia).

Great story SK. I wonder how that business works. A few years back an airline misplaced one of my suitcases. The airline found the suitcase the next day and had it delivered to my house. I was very surprised by the delivery: it took place quite late at night, and the delivery guy was a well-dressed gentleman in his late 50s or early 60s, driving a late model Lexus SUV.

Submitted by livinincali on December 3, 2012 - 1:54pm.

The problem with college in my eyes is that the educational content hasn't changed much yet the cost has soared. Calculus hasn't changed, Basic Chemistry hasn't changed, nothing short of bleeding edge PhD level research has changed yet college costs 3 times as much as it did 10 years ago. It might cost 8 times as much at UC schools by 2015.

Social aspects certainly are helpful but with social media do you really need to live in a dorm with other 18 year olds to establish future business contacts. Research is good use of money, it actually can produce a good return on investment in many cases.

College costs are a function of supply and demand. Give unlimited money in college loans and the demand for a "college experience" soars. Cut off those loans and the demand for education will still be there but the demand will be for efficient eduction opportunities like online classes. We don't need fancy facilities to teach kids math, science, and history we just need kids with a computer and a desire to work hard on learning the material.

Submitted by zk on December 3, 2012 - 5:21pm.

meadandale wrote:
The one thing all of the people mentioned in the article all have in common? They are all type A personalities and would have been successful in any businesses INCLUDING tech...with or without college.

I agree with this. If you have a (viable, profitable) vision and the drive and other traits necessary to force your vision into reality, you don't need college. Not many people have those things.

Submitted by CDMA ENG on December 3, 2012 - 6:17pm.

outtamojo wrote:
These guys just don't get it- college is for meeting chicks.

Comp Sci guys meeting chicks?!?

I think you don't get it.

They were never going to meet chicks in the first place.

CE

Submitted by scaredyclassic on December 3, 2012 - 10:49pm.

i dont think ofmyself as a total sucker but I still think a lower-costcollege degree isn't a bad long term investment on a smart kid.

Submitted by KIBU on December 4, 2012 - 12:40am.

Hey Blogstar,

That is extremely deep what you are saying. I would follow you. There is a truth in it. I need to learn the wisdom of slacking off and the stupidity of the worker bees.

Submitted by flyer on December 4, 2012 - 6:28am.

Interesting how this topic comes up almost once a month in some form.

As I know I've posted before, I can only speak from the perspective of what I'm actually seeing in the real world with my kids, and their peers, who are now in their mid to late 20's.

All of my kids went to college, and have done well, but they all had very specific goals when they started, and each knew exactly what they wanted to try to achieve.

On the other hand, many of their friends who also attended college with very specific goals have had problems finding positions in their desired fields. Those who attended with no particular goals in mind, are completely lost.

Sadly, many expected their dreams would be handed to them with little effort on their part, and that has not worked out well. In reality, it seems to be about a 50/50 success rate from what we've seen--and that's being optimistic.

If I were to analyze what gave my kids an edge, I'd have to say it was probably inside connections in their desired fields. Each one of them built amazing connections with people they knew along the way, and we threw in a few, too.

Apart from genius--to which the OP alluded--never underestimate the power of connections. IMO,that single element can really make all the difference in whether your kids live their career dreams or not--with, or without a college diploma.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on December 4, 2012 - 8:39am.

So true. It's not what you know it's which epistomologists u know at least for philosophy careers

Submitted by scaredyclassic on December 4, 2012 - 10:24am.

Wait maybe the joke shoulda benn it's not what you know it's how you know at least for careers in epistomology

Submitted by EconProf on December 4, 2012 - 12:27pm.

Not mentioned so far is the importance of the major the student takes as a determinant of their future occupational success. There is a huge difference in outcomes for humanities, ethnic studies, gender studies, social science majors vs. STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) and other more difficult majors.
Freshmen are rarely informed of this by the professors in these easier majors who need upper level students to maintain their employment. A little truth in advertising is needed...plus the parents need to step in to exert their influence--and pocketbook.

Submitted by bearishgurl on December 4, 2012 - 12:49pm.

EconProf wrote:
Not mentioned so far is the importance of the major the student takes as a determinant of their future occupational success. There is a huge difference in outcomes for humanities, ethnic studies, gender studies, social science majors vs. STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) and other more difficult majors.
Freshmen are rarely informed of this by the professors in these easier majors who need upper level students to maintain their employment. A little truth in advertising is needed...plus the parents need to step in to exert their influence--and pocketbook.

Econprof, I did address this issue earlier, here:

bearishgurl wrote:
FT college is the right thing to do for recent HS grads IF:

-snip-

-they know what they want to major in;

-and, their major of choice is one in which they can easily get hired into FT employment (w/benefits) ... even if they have to relocate to do so.

And yes, I think parents SHOULD influence (their student's choice of major) with their pocketbook, REGARDLESS of the size of it. They're not doing their kid any favors by financing their kid's "degree" in "underwater basketweaving."

Either the student is going to "go along with the program" of majoring in a currently-in-demand and highly-employable field or they have to find their own financing for college or drop out.

Parents who are financing their student's education (in whole AND in part) should also insist on seeing their student's grades in a timely manner after every semester and get their student's promise that they will chain their academic advisor to their ankle so they will NOT make expensive class-selection mistakes (which cost them additional semesters to finish their degree programs).

In most cases, parents today are sacrificing a large portion of their retirement funds to "launch" their kid into the world properly and I feel they are "entitled" to practical results ... or their student should at least bail out after the first semester/year (or after 2nd yr with all their GE credits finished) if they cannot decide on what they want to major in.

College is now far too expensive to be "child's play" anymore. Many of these college-bound and college freshman kids need to "grow up" and appreciate all that their parents have done (and are doing) for them, which is not without great sacrifice to their own futures.

Submitted by outtamojo on December 4, 2012 - 1:05pm.

CDMA ENG wrote:
outtamojo wrote:
These guys just don't get it- college is for meeting chicks.

Comp Sci guys meeting chicks?!?

I think you don't get it.

They were never going to meet chicks in the first place.

CE

Are you kidding me? With social media, it is easier than ever for geeky types to meet chicks.
(without having to face them in person.) I know cause my Bro does it all the time. Things go great while there is a firewall between them, but as soon as he actually has to be alone with a chick or even talk on a phone...

Submitted by outtamojo on December 4, 2012 - 1:16pm.

flyer wrote:
Interesting how this topic comes up almost once a month in some form.

As I know I've posted before, I can only speak from the perspective of what I'm actually seeing in the real world with my kids, and their peers, who are now in their mid to late 20's.

All of my kids went to college, and have done well, but they all had very specific goals when they started, and each knew exactly what they wanted to try to achieve.

On the other hand, many of their friends who also attended college with very specific goals have had problems finding positions in their desired fields. Those who attended with no particular goals in mind, are completely lost.

Sadly, many expected their dreams would be handed to them with little effort on their part, and that has not worked out well. In reality, it seems to be about a 50/50 success rate from what we've seen--and that's being optimistic.

If I were to analyze what gave my kids an edge, I'd have to say it was probably inside connections in their desired fields. Each one of them built amazing connections with people they knew along the way, and we threw in a few, too.

Apart from genius--to which the OP alluded--never underestimate the power of connections. IMO,that single element can really make all the difference in whether your kids live their career dreams or not--with, or without a college diploma.

I agree about the connections thing - I'm at this moment watching as a complete moron is a finalist to become CEO where I work. He is the son in law of the former CEO, who left the place in shambles. The BOD was always in the former CEO's hip pocket.

Submitted by CDMA ENG on December 4, 2012 - 3:19pm.

outtamojo wrote:
CDMA ENG wrote:
outtamojo wrote:
These guys just don't get it- college is for meeting chicks.

Comp Sci guys meeting chicks?!?

I think you don't get it.

They were never going to meet chicks in the first place.

CE

Are you kidding me? With social media, it is easier than ever for geeky types to meet chicks.
(without having to face them in person.) I know cause my Bro does it all the time. Things go great while there is a firewall between them, but as soon as he actually has to be alone with a chick or even talk on a phone...

You should always use a "firewall" when meeting chicks. You never know what "viruses" they may have!

:P

CE

Submitted by flyer on December 4, 2012 - 4:49pm.

Absolutely agree, EP and BG.

25+ years ago, when my wife and I finished college, that allowed you to walk into just about any job you wanted. Not true today. If kids aren't majoring in "in-demand" fields, they are really wasting their time and their parents money.

As far as the connections thing I mentioned, I've seen that strategy work out well for both "morons" and "non-morons"--OM. Hopefully there are more in the "non-moron" category.

Submitted by Hobie on December 4, 2012 - 4:57pm.

outtamojo wrote:
... but as soon as he actually has to be alone with a chick or even talk on a phone...

just the kind of guy I want my daughter to date :)

Kidding,, you will understand if you have a daughter;)

Submitted by Hobie on December 4, 2012 - 5:07pm.

Flyer: Right on the mark about connections. And darn nearly every one of your posts.

If I may add, you don't have to be born into a 'connected' family for this to work. Just get out there and meet people. All types. Volunteer, donate your services, seek out the movers and shakers and meet them. Most are receptive and know the game. And if you can make them money, trustworthly, sharp, etc .... doors open. Learn to be friendly and even your geekiest cubical dweller will soon have a network of diverse people who tend to help one another.

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