San Diego Housing Market News and Analysis

I agree, but curious as to what is the fascination about Toyota and dragging them through the mud?

Personally, I never liked their lineup because save the 4runner, I think they make the most boring cars. But that's just me.

I'd say, if you want a econo-box with good reliability these days, get a Hyundai. (The Genesis Coupe is is pretty spiffy, especially the 2.0T spec R with all the bells and whistles taken out of the car. Tuning on that thing should make it a blast. Not bad for someting MSRP at $23k)

Imho, the difference between companies like Hyundai and Ford VERSUS companies say like Chrysler, is that the former two has new products. The later is spending a crapload of taxpayer dollars on beautiful 335 page powerpoints/marketing in their attempt to rebrand old products as new products. Check out the Chrysler business plan...Yawn...

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/chrysler...

Of course not. They have to protect their interests.

I agree with FLU that Toyota products are boring.

That being said, it'll take a lot more than this to get me to buy an America car again. I think the Japanese cars are of a lot better quality and reliability.

German cars have performance and branding.

The Korean cars are OK, I think but they need to price substantially cheaper than Japanese cars to make them worthwhile. Everything has a price.

I was pleasantly surprised by the Ford Focus I rented several years ago. In the week I had it, it seemed pretty much as nice as, and got as good mileage as, my Corolla.

When car-shopping, check the Fords too.

they make the most boring cars

For a complex product like that, you are actually giving a backhanded compliment. There are plenty of people who aspired for the day when their car becomes as exciting as a ball point pen or a hammer - just fill gas, change oil occasionally and forget about it. Toyota (and Honda) did it. I have a Toyota designed Vibe and was (very pleasantly) shocked when the dealer mechanic said you can easily go for a year without an oil change on these engines.

Gonna read it later.

I just watched a news segment saying that Toyota told all its US dealers to not sell the 8 models effected by the previous recalls. Crazyness! Apparently it is the pedal, and may include some computer/electrical problems.

PS, i dont hate Toyota, I drive one.

I think Toyota has done it right. They have the boring, bread and butter line..aka Toyota, they have the classy line...Lexus, and there is the young hipster, mod-my-car line...Scion. Each is at least noticeably distinct from the other. Compare Honda and Acura.

Toyota was required, by law, to stop selling cars since they do not have a fix for this latest problem:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/27/repor...

They claim it was "voluntary", but that's not what the NHTSA says.

Also, this recall is not related to the original acceleration problem (note that no Lexus models were recalled this time...Saylor was driving a Lexus). The Saylor situation was a different defect altogether.

"The automaker's problems in the U.S. may be an extension of the spate of quality problems that plagued Toyota several years ago in Japan, its home market, during the aggressive growth strategy pursued under Watanabe.

In 2006, the Japanese government launched a criminal investigation into accidents suspected of being linked to vehicle problems, though nobody was charged. Watanabe later acknowledged overzealous growth was behind the quality problems."

http://nctimes.com/business/article_4d8a...

Before we get carried away on jumping on the Toyota pedal recall....Two things that I found interesting:

(1) It's not just Toyota that has a problem. It appears one other company who is sourcing the pedal from the same supplier.........Ford....

(2) Second, folks getting on the high heal of this this sticky pedal issue might also want to read the second paragraph in the article below.

The accelerators in question – subject to recall for sticking and causing unintended acceleration – are made by CTS Corp, based in Elkhart, Indiana. While CTS makes throttle pedal assemblies for other automakers, Toyota and Ford are the only companies thus far to announce production stoppages.

Yup... That's right.. A U.S. company.... Welcome to globalization...

So this begs the question, who else is gonna be affected, if this was a CTS issue (or as maybe, Toyota just gave them a crappy design).

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-h...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/28/repor...

Taking every precaution, Ford Motor Co. has stopped production on its Chinese-made Transit Classic diesel models – a full-sized commercial vehicle with a throttle pedal manufactured by the same company behind the Toyota recall. According to Ford, the vehicles began production in December and only about 1,600 vehicles have been produced. There have been no reported problems with the vehicle's accelerator, but the automaker wants to take a step back to ensure problems will not surface in the future. "That's part of our routine process – when a company has a recall, you conduct a review and determine if you share any of the same vendors, design, parts," according to Ford spokesman Said Deep.

The accelerators in question – subject to recall for sticking and causing unintended acceleration – are made by CTS Corp, based in Elkhart, Indiana. While CTS makes throttle pedal assemblies for other automakers, Toyota and Ford are the only companies thus far to announce production stoppages. Thanks for the tip Jarrett!

Wow, Flu.

Thanks for pointing out that the American company, Ford, went the extra mile and stopped production BEFORE a single defect was found in their gas pedals! Which, by the way, are NOT necessarily the same design as the Toyota pedals...they just wanted to be super safe.

They didn't, like Toyota did, hide or ignore potential pedal problems for YEARS.

You also missed the article, on the same site you quote, that states NHTSA opened an investigation into Toyota unintended acceleration back in 2004 but then dropped it when they decided to limit their investigation to acceleration instances of one second or less (!!!) and therefore eliminated many of the complaints....this one-second-or-less limitation was implemented the same week that NHTSA employee Chris Santucci took a job with Toyota.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/28/did-n...

Coincidence?

And I would like to reiterate my point: Toyota is no better than any other car company in terms of quality or ethics - a point that seems entirely wasted on a large swath of Toyota worshippers.

Believe that you want.

I still think that Toyota makes superior products.

Look at the new Prius. The stamping and body work on that car are beautiful. The creases on the metal are perfectly executed. Compare that to a round, bulbous Ford.

Sorry, I wouldn't buy an American car. If not a Toyota, I'd buy the other makes before I buy an American car.

I think that it's generally better to buy Japanese cars manufactured in Japan. You can tell by the VIN number.

The big picture is that the people are ignoring the biggest cause of foul play in this country. You thinking stupid towel-heads with fan-belts? No those monsters can't hold a candle to real killers. DUI deaths in USA are over 11,000 per year. Ford Exploder tires and Toyota accelerator deaths are << 100 a year.

That said, can you really say that Toyota clearly fixed this problem in 2008?? OR called everyone who reported incident a F*** moron? Toyota may have had honor at one time, but they may have learned some fine American PR traits: deceitful, deceptive, delusive, guileful, mendacious, misleading, misrepresenting, misstating, perfidious, prevaricating, unreliable, untruthful, and just plain WRONG.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/10238...

http://www.centurycouncil.org/learn-the-...

cars suck

Yes, because creases signify such a better quality product than round forms. :-)

I have no problem with people who prefer the look of Toyotas. Personally, I can count on one hand the number of Toyota designs I thought were well executed.

We all have our own biases...cheers.

Actually, svelte, my point was exactly directed at those Toyota bashers who seemingly enjoy bashing Toyota for being "foreign". And I'll reiterate this again, the complexity involved in a building a vehicle is such that lines between foreign and domestic and a source of "defect" can be pin-pointed to one entity or make/model. And it remains to be seen who else is going to be added to this recall list, considering CTS is a supplier not just for Toyota or Ford. I've never owned/leased a Toyota btw.

WASHINGTON – Federal regulators have opened an investigation into complaints that power steering systems in the Chevrolet Cobalt can fail, making it more difficult to control the car. Not that any Piggs have this kind of car, but the fact is there are a lot of manufacturing defects out there and Toyota makes a pretty good product overall.US probes Chevy Cobalt steering complaints from yahoo.com today.

[the link would not print due to the spam filter.

I wish car companies would get back to building...um... cars... Instead of building entertainment systems on wheels..

Too much damn electronics, too many bells and whistles....

Keyless entry, panoramic sunroofs, multiple dvd units in headrests, navigation systems, MMI interfaces. Electronic controlled shifter....Utter useless bunch of crap.

Mercedes Benz takes the cake on electronic craptacular.

I don't particularly like the designs of Toyota cars. But I appreciate the precision of manufacturing of the parts.

Toyotas cars are more precisely made than other cars. From the stitching on the seats to the stamping of the sheet metal.

Me too.. but it ain't going to happen.

The electronics is where the profit margin is. Take a Toyota, put some electronic lipstick on, a little more power, and call it a Lexus for $15,000 more.

Yeah, cause you are gonna care about style and all that green bullshit when the accelerator is stuck and you crach into a ditch on the side of the road.

You have your priorities straight, that's for sure.

The 2010 Prius may have an issue with the regenerative braking system. I own a 2010 Prius IV and sudden loss of brakes has happened once. I've driven the car 8,000 miles so far. This is my reply to a priuschat.com thread where several Prius owners were discussing the issue.

From 12-18-09:

"I experienced this on my IV last week. To make a right turn, I started braking just as the front wheels hit a bump on the road. Braking power was not there with the usual pedal pressure. It was like the breaks became very weak. It lasted for about 1/2 second and then it started to brake as usual. I may have increased the pedal pressure to force this. I almost missed the turn. No other incidents since or before. I will try to replicate the event under safe conditions."

From today's U-T:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/...

The irony that is behind the Prius... There's also reported problems that in certain cases when driving on slippery conditions like snow, it's traction control brings the car to a complete stop....

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/20...

So, basically what we have here is a "vehicle" that stops when it's not suppose to and can't stop when it needs to.
LOL.....

Anyway, these recalls, howerver are bringing the worst in a lot of people. Just reading on autoblog...

You have a guy that wants to return his truck to the dealership after buying it, and when refused, crashes it into the dealership blaming it on unintended acceleration.

Then you have a group of folks now suing Toyota because they feel they shouldn't have to make any car payments/lease payments while their cars are recalled.

Not defending Toyota's fiasco, but is there any surprise why some folks who got over their head in a housing now are screaming bloody murder....

According to some of the news today, it is turning into a class action suit.

I couldn't tell that from your post, but if your intent was to state there is virtually no difference between "foreign" and "domestic" automakers, then we are in violent agreement.

I differ with you on your point that, because CTS also makes pedals for Ford, they also will be recalling also. CTS makes pedals to manufacturer's specs. I doubt Ford specs match Toyota's bad design.

Interesting to note that this thread started back in November. Once again, Piggington readers/writers are months ahead of the general public...

Also note in the original post Toyota's statement back in November:
"no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."

Geez! Was THAT a load of BS or what? They're replacing the gas pedal on millions of vehicles just 3 months later!!!

I think that what is happening with a lot of these companies in the past that built their reputation as being reliable cars, is that they have gotten considerably arrogant in doing so .

I had a acura mdx, and while it was mostly reliable,and overall have been happy with it..I did have an issue with a rear passenger door lock sticking/jamming that was preventing anyone from inside or outside from being able to open the door. I had to take this two two separate dealers totaling 6 times to get it fixed...and it was only fixed after I spent a few hours of my own time figuring out what was going on.

To the first dealer's credit, they tried to replace some parts without question, reseat seals etc. But at the end, both dealers said they couldn't do more because they weren't able to reproduce the issue and that Honda of America would no reimburse the labor cost of doing this sort of troubleshooting to the dealer if no problem was found. I don't know if the dealer was just blowing me off or if Honda really was given their dealership crap, but it was disturbing enough that if the door jammed and we were involved in an accident, there would be no way to get out...So in that case, I had to take matters into my own hands.

Also, I recall back in the 80ies, there was an issue with some honda seat buckles jamming. Honda was quoted as saying americans shouldn't be eating in the cars and getting all that food crap in the seat belt buckles. Eventually, honda recalled the seat belt buckles.

The irony is, I drive german most of the time, and I've just learned to expect most of the stuff breaks all the time....heh heh...though, I'm still looking for a Ford Edge... Ford's problem right now, imho, is that it's pretty difficult to buy a car you want. It seems like there's too many options and if you want something specific, they don't stock it. I can't find too many AWD in southern cal. And they either need to order it or fish it from somewhere far. I guess I'll have to wait until the 2011MY. More plenty of CUV/SUV to choose from.

(Explorer or new Edge with ecoboost, and Jeep Grand Cherokee...).

The companies that I think are going to be big beneficiaries of this Toyota fiasco imho is.....Hyundai/Kia....The timing is almost perfect with the new Sonata...I'm not a big fan of it's styling, but I have to admit that Hyundai's got it going on right now...

I've always had problems finding cars on the lot optioned the way I want, even when I've done state-wide searches. 3 of my last 4 vehicles I've custom-ordered from the factory.

Makes my cars pretty unique. :-)

LOL. When it rains, it really pours. Toyota coughs, everyone else sneezes at the same time... I wonder which other manufacturer is going to use this opportunity to clean the closet.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ford-to-fi...

Ford to fix brake problem on Milan, Fusion hybrids
Ford to fix brake problem with 17,600 Mercury Milan, Ford Fusion hybrids
ap

DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. plans to fix 17,600 Mercury Milan and Ford Fusion gas-electric hybrids because of a software problem that can give drivers the impression that the brakes have failed.

The automaker says the problem occurs in transition between two braking systems and at no time are drivers without brakes.

The decision to fix the 2010 model cars came after a test driver for Consumer Reports magazine experienced the problem as he was driving a Fusion Hybrid.

Ford spokesman Said Deep says braking power seems to drop away as the car makes a transition from regenerative brakes to the conventional system. The Ford hybrids have regenerative brakes, which capture energy from braking to help recharge the battery, in addition to a conventional system that stops the car using hydraulic pressure.

Deep says Ford will notify the car owners to bring their cars in for a software fix. He said there is no safety problem with the cars. The automaker called the repairs a "customer satisfaction program" and said it was not a full-fledged recall. Deep said Ford reported the problems to a U.S. safety agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

The move comes on the same day that NHTSA began an evaluation of braking problems on the 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid. With the Prius, antilock brakes can fail momentarily while the car transitions between its gasoline and electric motors.

Ford told dealers about a fix on Thursday. They already had the software to repair it in case it came up, Deep said.

He said Ford did not notify all the owners before Consumer Reports found the problem because the number of problems was small.

"We're taking this action proactively to kind of address some of the customer problems we've seen," he said.

The software fix changes the pedal feel so it doesn't drop, he said.

The cars were built before Oct. 17, 2009. For models built after that date, Ford fixed the software at the factory to change the feel of the pedal, Deep said.

Jeff Bartlett, Consumer Reports' deputy editor for online autos, said one of the magazine's most experienced test drivers braked while approaching a curve in a Fusion hybrid last month, and the brake pedal dropped about an inch.

"They didn't react the way he expected," Bartlett said. "He perceived it to be a brake failure of some kind."

The driver coasted to a stop and shut off the engine, and when he restarted it, the brakes worked normally, Bartlett said.

Consumer Reports notified Ford, which responded quickly to evaluate the problem, Bartlett said.

Deep would say only that Ford had received a small number of customer complaints. There has been one crash and no injuries due to the problem, he said.

NHTSA has received only one complaint, according to Deep.

Here is an article on the Prius claiming they've known about the Prius problem for some time...Prius owners from the previous generation are piping in at the bottom of the article saying they've had this problem for years...will Toyota be forced to expand the recall?

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/autos/pr...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota has known about brake problems in its popular Prius cars for some time, going so far as to fix it in new production vehicles, but has kept Prius drivers in the dark about the problem until the Japanese government called for an investigation.

Toyota issued an announcement Thursday saying it was cooperating with NHTSA's investigation.
The complaints have been very consistent. As described by NHTSA's Office of Defect Investigations "Consumers allege a momentary loss in braking during brake applications while traveling over an uneven road surface, pothole or bump in the roadway."

I just don't get drive-by-wire, at least for non-hybrid powertrains.

The aforementioned Chevy Cobalt power steering problem would be very disconcerting, but at least you'd still have some control of the car.

Regulating the throttle with a bunch of sensors and servos is another matter entirely.