OT: The Night I Became A Republican

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Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 10:09pm

good lord. I just went to a financial aid seminar at local hs. Sounds like the bottom line is, if you're poor ($80,000 ceiling for family of 4) you get a free ride, if you have a 3.0 GPA.

If your parent makes good money, you get nothing.

So, ok. basically, the parents with some decent income have to subsidize the poor kid. The poor kid doesn't have to take out loans, they get a full ride at UC school, if he has over 3.0 GPA. But the parents who make some money (and almost certainly have proprortionately higher expenses) have to pay the full ticket? Over 100k?

What is this, a communist nation?

So, anyway, it appears that the way around this is...your kid gets married. then your kid is independent. and then parents' income doesn't count.

I'm doing some research on the internet and there's an article on this arrangement in the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06b...

and a matchmaking website for tuition benefit...

www.whypaytuition.com

I don't see why parents who do well should have to fully subsidize some other kid just because his parents are broke. I'm already subsidizing my own damn kid!

Objectively, I suppose, it seems fair that i should have to pay somewhat more, but the poor kid should have to take on some debt ...and no parent should get off scot-free...should be a strict, proportionate sliding scale.

Submitted by paramount on January 17, 2013 - 10:17pm.

It's called economic injustice; and it's all around us.

Submitted by SK in CV on January 17, 2013 - 10:24pm.

I'm not sure what this has to do with being a republican, but yeah it's tough. But it's worth it.

Btw, kids with a 3.0 can't often get into a UC anyway.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 10:40pm.

SK in CV wrote:
I'm not sure what this has to do with being a republican, but yeah it's tough. But it's worth it.

Btw, kids with a 3.0 can't often get into a UC anyway.

by republican, i meant the general stereotype that republicans oppose having the rich subsidize programs for the poor.

in this case, it seems particularly unfair, because both kids, if viewed as adults, are about equally poor. Neither one of them actually has anything. the only asset the "wealthy" kid has is the fact that he happens to ahve parents who earn a decent living. But that's not really his money. In fact, it would be theft if he started rifling through my wallet claiing it was "his". How is this different?

A parent cannot say "no" to the demand for tuition and have his kid proceed by himself until marriage or age 24, or certain other conditions...

if you say no to the system, you are basically not allowing your kid to go...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 10:45pm.

SK in CV wrote:
I'm not sure what this has to do with being a republican, but yeah it's tough. But it's worth it.

Btw, kids with a 3.0 can't often get into a UC anyway.

pretty much every kid with a GPA over 3.0 gets into UC Merced; see graph...

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-...

ditto for UC Riverside. 3.0 and very damn likely you get in...

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-...

UC Santa Cruz look like a way better than 50-50 shot to get in with just a 3.0 and a halfway decent sat score...

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 10:46pm.

seems like this system also really benefits the family where much of the income is off the books...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 10:51pm.

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/GPA-SAT-...

However, see above....a 3.0 will not get you into Irvine...

Submitted by outtamojo on January 17, 2013 - 11:23pm.

Have you ever been to Merced? That town is like an armpit...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 11:29pm.

no but id send my kid there for the right price..

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2013 - 11:33pm.

i will be pretty broke if I pay sticker price for 3 kids over the next 12 years...ahh, the hell with it...community college for everyone...

Submitted by flu on January 17, 2013 - 11:54pm.

SK in CV wrote:
I'm not sure what this has to do with being a republican, but yeah it's tough. But it's worth it.

Btw, kids with a 3.0 can't often get into a UC anyway.

Depends on what race you claim you are. If your white, forget it. If your Asian, definitely forget it.

Submitted by flu on January 17, 2013 - 11:55pm.

squat300 wrote:
good lord. I just went to a financial aid seminar at local hs. Sounds like the bottom line is, if you're poor ($80,000 ceiling for family of 4) you get a free ride, if you have a 3.0 GPA.

If your parent makes good money, you get nothing.

So, ok. basically, the parents with some decent income have to subsidize the poor kid. The poor kid doesn't have to take out loans, they get a full ride at UC school, if he has over 3.0 GPA. But the parents who make some money (and almost certainly have proprortionately higher expenses) have to pay the full ticket? Over 100k?

What is this, a communist nation?

So, anyway, it appears that the way around this is...your kid gets married. then your kid is independent. and then parents' income doesn't count.

I'm doing some research on the internet and there's an article on this arrangement in the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06b...

and a matchmaking website for tuition benefit...

www.whypaytuition.com

I don't see why parents who do well should have to fully subsidize some other kid just because his parents are broke. I'm already subsidizing my own damn kid!

Objectively, I suppose, it seems fair that i should have to pay somewhat more, but the poor kid should have to take on some debt ...and no parent should get off scot-free...should be a strict, proportionate sliding scale.

Wow, squat starting to think what many of us have already been thinking? What the hell is the world coming to?

But in all seriousness, I'm not a die hard republican at all. I hate a lot of the morons in backward states on some of the social issues. And a lot of republicans are far from being fiscally conservative.

Submitted by flu on January 17, 2013 - 11:59pm.

squat300 wrote:
i will be pretty broke if I pay sticker price for 3 kids over the next 12 years...ahh, the hell with it...community college for everyone...

Squat..Just wait until state schools start to follow some private schools and start including the equity of your primary residence towards whether your kids qualify for financial aid...Yup that's right...If you spent your time paying off your house, they expect you to mortgage your house to pay for your kid's education. Meanwhile, if you totally heloced the hell out of it and have no equity, then you get a benefit.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-5...

Submitted by CA renter on January 18, 2013 - 1:28am.

Agree with you, scaredy, this is totally wrong. It should be based on a sliding scale.

Submitted by livinincali on January 18, 2013 - 7:57am.

It's hard to grow tuition at 10% per year if you can't get your hands on new pots of money. The college cost bubble will pop at some point, but maybe not quick enough to save some of you. Unfortunately people have to vote with their wallets and stop playing the FAFSA game. I think we're at that point where the return on investment has to be considered. Is a $100K education really going to get you a positive return for your particular child? The content I learned in college a decade ago is exactly the same as the content today yet it costs 3-5 times as much.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 8:33am.

grrr. sucks when there's all this emotion and familial duty wrapped up in it.

colleges are bad.

so what about getting your kid married? then he's on his own...

WWW.WHYPAYTUITION.COM

why not do that?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 8:37am.

the other riskier possibility is to just jump on the bandwagon and borrow, and expect some sort of federal relief when the bubble pops...

the first kid I think could do the engineering route pretty successfully...

but all these decisions are so speculative at 17

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 8:38am.

flu wrote:
SK in CV wrote:
I'm not sure what this has to do with being a republican, but yeah it's tough. But it's worth it.

Btw, kids with a 3.0 can't often get into a UC anyway.

Depends on what race you claim you are. If your white, forget it. If your Asian, definitely forget it.

who will speak for the mexi-jews?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 8:48am.

18: no further duty to support kid.

18; able to contract

18: able to join military

18: get life in prison for certain crimes.

21; able to drink

24: able to apply for financial aid without parental assets

I think the financial aid rules are basically recognizing that basically, your kid is still a kid for a long time....probably should raise all the other ages to 24, too, just for consistency...

Submitted by flu on January 18, 2013 - 9:25am.

squat300 wrote:
flu wrote:
SK in CV wrote:
I'm not sure what this has to do with being a republican, but yeah it's tough. But it's worth it.

Btw, kids with a 3.0 can't often get into a UC anyway.

Depends on what race you claim you are. If your white, forget it. If your Asian, definitely forget it.

who will speak for the mexi-jews?

As long as you have a miniscale percentage of one of the protected races, you can claim it...At least that's what some of my h.s. classmates did...(Needless to say some of them flunked out, but that's another story)

Coming soon to a theater near you... Re-instatement of affirmative action...
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/26/...

I only speak from experience because obviously I was applying into college at the time when Prop 209 didn't exist yet. So yeah, it was kinda a sore spot for me.

But if they do reinstate AA, it would be interesting to try a social experiment... Have one of your kids apply one way and another one the other (credentials being equal)....

Then again, at the way CA diversity is going, caucasians might be able to apply for minority status in about 10 years... Just kidding...sort of...

Submitted by Blogstar on January 18, 2013 - 9:45am.

My parents were both deceased by the time I was 21. I was in the Navy until I was 23. When I got out and got a full time job then enrolled in college I could not get financial aid because I made too much money!
Lots of ethnic groups, born here and new arrivals who lived with their parents were getting free money every year. In Physics and Calculus it was mostly Asians. White kids who still lived with their parents in nice middle class homes were getting money on some terms. That was when I became a political agnostic.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 10:02am.

Blogstar wrote:
My parents were both deceased by the time I was 21. I was in the Navy until I was 23. When I got out and got a full time job then enrolled in college I could not get financial aid because I made too much money!
Lots of ethnic groups, born here and new arrivals who lived with their parents were getting free money every year. In Physics and Calculus it was mostly Asians. White kids who still lived with their parents in nice middle class homes were getting money on some terms. That was when I became a political agnostic.

Nowadays it seems like some vets kids get a total free ride. That also seems to me to screw up the market price since they won't care what tuition is as they're not paying it

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 10:06am.

I feel better now. Going to count my blessings and not look at what's on others plates.

Still, an arranged marriage might be nice. Not sure if domestic partnerships will work so I'm looking for a girl. Anyone out there looking to make a match?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 10:11am.

flu wrote:
squat300 wrote:
i will be pretty broke if I pay sticker price for 3 kids over the next 12 years...ahh, the hell with it...community college for everyone...

Squat..Just wait until state schools start to follow some private schools and start including the equity of your primary residence towards whether your kids qualify for financial aid...Yup that's right...If you spent your time paying off your house, they expect you to mortgage your house to pay for your kid's education. Meanwhile, if you totally heloced the hell out of it and have no equity, then you get a benefit.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-51276393/what-college-aid-officers-wont-tell-you/

Would it pay to remortgage the house for fin aid purposes, invest the money? Would the difference between heloc interest and return be less than the inc. tuition?

Submitted by Blogstar on January 18, 2013 - 10:24am.

squat300 wrote:
Blogstar wrote:
My parents were both deceased by the time I was 21. I was in the Navy until I was 23. When I got out and got a full time job then enrolled in college I could not get financial aid because I made too much money!
Lots of ethnic groups, born here and new arrivals who lived with their parents were getting free money every year. In Physics and Calculus it was mostly Asians. White kids who still lived with their parents in nice middle class homes were getting money on some terms. That was when I became a political agnostic.

Nowadays it seems like some vets kids get a total free ride. That also seems to me to screw up the market price since they won't care what tuition is as they're not paying it

I was in at a bad time for FA. I was to put in $2,700 from pay and get $8,100 for school. Had to spend the $2,700 on my dad's funeral. Now they do have great benefits. Something like $2,000 for housing allowance and I think tuition get paid too. Not sure. I don't think they have to pay any back if they drop out. Some that I see seem to be milking it for a while for the fun of it. Not that I blame them. It just doesn't jive(or is it jibe) with national financial dire straights. Besides that the wars were bullshit. We are screwed.

Submitted by sdduuuude on January 18, 2013 - 10:53am.

Might as well kill two birds with one stone and marry someone from another country so they can get a green card and citizenship.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 11:04am.

Specific federal law prohibits green card marriage

Submitted by Ren on January 18, 2013 - 11:07am.

squat300 wrote:
Would it pay to remortgage the house for fin aid purposes, invest the money? Would the difference between heloc interest and return be less than the inc. tuition?

Why not buy a couple of rental properties now, and let someone else make the tuition loan payments?

I went along with starting a 529 to humor certain family members, but "saving" certainly won't be paying for their college. Their books maybe (or phablets, or brainlets, or whatever they'll be using in 14 years).

Submitted by bearishgurl on January 18, 2013 - 11:13am.

squat300 wrote:
Would it pay to remortgage the house for fin aid purposes, invest the money? Would the difference between heloc interest and return be less than the inc. tuition?

NO!

squat300 wrote:
Nowadays it seems like some vets kids get a total free ride. That also seems to me to screw up the market price since they won't care what tuition is as they're not paying it

scaredy the vet's kids who get a "free ride" (fees only) are those whose parent has a 100% service-connected disability. In addition, they get ~$831 mo living expenses for 9 months per year. IIRC, the benefit only lasts for four years F/T consisting of 8 semesters (CSU/CC) or 12 quarters (UC). If these students screw up and/or take the wrong classes for their major or changes majors midstream, they are going to end up being out-of-pocket before their college "career" ends. The benefit is only available to legal issue and legal adoptees of the disabled vet and not to persons whose paternity was never determined, stepchildren or children given up for adoption by the disabled vet.

The CalVet program covers students whose parent has LESS than a 100% service-connected disability. For UC, it pays all fees same as above but no living expenses. For CSU/CC, it pays ~$1275 per semester in fees (partial fee-waiver). HOWEVER, there is a BIG CATCH to the CalVet assistance. The student is NOT ALLOWED to make over $11,702 year gross in any tax year they are accepting CalVet assistance for college. If they do, they will be dropped from the program as CalVet orders their recipients' tax-return info from the FTB every year. This would preclude these students from from accepting slots at CA coastal campuses with a high cost of living unless they received other cash assistance from parents or other relatives, had other available aid, worked a lot "under the table" and/or took out a student loan.

You are correct that UC RIV, UC Merced and UC Santa Cruz are the only UC campus that currently accept solid "B" students. I was told the exact same thing last month by my kid's counselor at school. The rest of the UC Campuses accept freshmen with avg GPA's ranging from 3.73 to 4.22. However, incoming juniors (from CC) can often transfer in with a little less than that.

How far is the UC RIV campus from your home, scaredy? Can't your kid just live at home and attend UC RIV? If it's more than an hour's drive one way, he can schedule all his classes on Tues/Thurs and just go twice a week. I think he would be a little "bored" at CC for two years, due to his extremely high SAT score and his "natural inquisitiveness" you often describe here :)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 18, 2013 - 12:14pm.

Hmmm.

Need to ponder.

Parents matter.

I'm thinking cal poly Pomona if he gets in. Tuition plus rm and board comparable to uc riv tuition, and no commute. Also can visit on weekend.

Ok, done.

Wait. Unless they won't take his 1.5 years of ap credit. Maybe just go get a bs at cal state San Marcos ASAP while living at home.

Submitted by flu on January 18, 2013 - 12:32pm.

Ren wrote:
squat300 wrote:
Would it pay to remortgage the house for fin aid purposes, invest the money? Would the difference between heloc interest and return be less than the inc. tuition?

Why not buy a couple of rental properties now, and let someone else make the tuition loan payments?

I went along with starting a 529 to humor certain family members, but "saving" certainly won't be paying for their college. Their books maybe (or phablets, or brainlets, or whatever they'll be using in 14 years).

The moment you have an account (save retirement account) it counts toward income from aid perspective.

529 plan did 19% last year BTW...So it's not really just savings, unless one picks a really bad 529 plan.

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