OT: red light camera ticket for right turn and 0.1 secs

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Submitted by Scarlett on October 8, 2011 - 9:01pm

I finally did it and got my first red light camera ticket. I failed to stop at the red light as I was making a right turn. The late time was only 0.1 seconds. It turned from right turn yellow arrow to full red just before reached the intersection - and I thought it was safer to continue the right turn. No I didn't stop. Right turn on red is permissible there and there isn't red-right turn arrow. The photos/videos are pretty clear too. But really, for 0.1 seconds? for a right turn (when it just has been right green/yellow arrow)? Yeah, I should have slowed down and prepare to stop when the yellow right arrow appeared but I thought I would make it (it's a reasonably long yellow right arrow).

Has anybody been in a similar situation and fought? Has anybody managed to have such a ticket dismissed?

I would really appreciate any advice on the matter, how can this be fought. I think the fee is way high compared to the East Coast. I'd be ok paying a fee, but I think this is a ripoff.

Many thanks,
Scarlett
P.S. FWIW, until now I had a spotless record and I am pretty safe good driver.

Submitted by Aecetia on October 8, 2011 - 9:50pm.

"Here’s the facts about red light camera tickets, when to act, and when to beware-" I ran a google search: http://www.ticketkick.com/tips-for-avoid...

Good luck.

Submitted by teaboy on October 9, 2011 - 10:33am.

www.ticketassassin.com is a great resource. I have successfully fought 2 tickets for my wife.

good luck,
tb

Submitted by earlyretirement on October 9, 2011 - 11:55am.

Just out of curiosity, how much was the ticket?

Submitted by doofrat on October 9, 2011 - 12:28pm.

What intersection was this? I didn't know you could get a red light ticket for turning right on a red?

Submitted by GH on October 9, 2011 - 1:00pm.

Thanks for your generous contribution to the mayors pension fund :-)

If you decide to fight look up "Mr ticket". Apparently he has a very good track record.

Submitted by Scarlett on October 9, 2011 - 1:19pm.

doofrat wrote:
What intersection was this? I didn't know you could get a red light ticket for turning right on a red?

Genessee and North Torrey Pines.
You can if you fail to STOP at the red light before turning right. I didn't. :(
You have to stop at red - to ensure others' (drivers, pedestrians, bikers) safety.

Submitted by Scarlett on October 9, 2011 - 1:20pm.

GH wrote:
Thanks for your generous contribution to the mayors pension fund :-)

If you decide to fight look up "Mr ticket". Apparently he has a very good track record.

I did, it seems that his fee is almost $200 and there is no money back guarantee...

I haven't received the exact ticket amount yet, but it's supposed to be close to $500 (Ouch!).

Submitted by Scarlett on October 9, 2011 - 1:25pm.

Thanks everybody, I will try to get trial by written declaration first. I think I'll use ticketkick which offers money back guarantee first.

Submitted by Scarlett on October 9, 2011 - 1:29pm.

teaboy wrote:
www.ticketassassin.com is a great resource. I have successfully fought 2 tickets for my wife.

good luck,
tb


Thanks! That is a good resource. Did you fight it in person in court, or in writing?

I am reluctant to spend money on my defense as I feel they do have a case (photo/video evidence) and I should pay something, it's just that to me, in this particular case this doesn't warrant such a big fine...

Submitted by EconProf on October 9, 2011 - 7:13pm.

A few observations:
1. CA's fines are two to three times as high as most other states. Seems to be primarily a revenue-raiser for our big state government.
2. Such fines are especially tough on the poor--some countries (I believe Finland) base the fine on your income, an interesting stance.
3. You seem to admit guilt, so maybe you should appear in front of a judge and ask for a reduced fine.
4. Turning right on a red light is actually quite dangerous to pedestrians and bicyclists. The latter especially, (I am one), may be moving pretty fast, are hard to spot, and are counting on you to stop. So-called rolling stops are common, but they condense the time for you to spot pedestrians or bicyclists.

Submitted by Scarlett on October 9, 2011 - 8:14pm.

EconProf wrote:

3. You seem to admit guilt, so maybe you should appear in front of a judge and ask for a reduced fine.

I could...it might be a better approach than pleading not guilty.

EconProf wrote:
4. Turning right on a red light is actually quite dangerous to pedestrians and bicyclists. The latter especially, (I am one), may be moving pretty fast, are hard to spot, and are counting on you to stop. So-called rolling stops are common, but they condense the time for you to spot pedestrians or bicyclists.

I know, I know, I am a bicyclist too.

As I've said, this was the case the right turn arrow has just disappearead and I thought it didn't make sense to slam on the brakes and end up in the middle of the intersection anyway. My mistake was not slowing down at the YELLOW right turn arrow. But because the right turn arrow just disappeared, bikers & pedestrians would have just started from full stop. It wasn't even that, as it was just 0.1 secs. I am totally for stopping fully at the red light. It's ok that I feel guilty, but that doesn't mean I have to pay that much :)

Submitted by rcfe on October 9, 2011 - 8:46pm.

I went court twice to fight my red right ticket. It is intimidating.if I knew I have the choice to contest by mail, I will avoid going there at all. Of course, the court never mention that you have this choice. And when you were there, you will be amazed how many tickets they issued. From what I observed, if you plead guilty at the first appearance, you pretty much agreed to pay the full amount. The judge won't give you any chance to argue or bargain. But if you plead not guilty, they will ask you to go to another room to schedule your second appearance. And the second appearance gives you bargaining power, because the officer will be there to testimony. Typically red light Turing right is considered light offense. The officer will talk to you if you are willing to agree to pay half. If you do, you make a deal with the officer and your case won't be heard by judge. This is my expereice two years ago. Hope they have not changed their strategies because of the budget deficit. There are tons of people similar to your case, seeing the light yellow and tried to turn when it turned to red. Believe or not, I did a research on line and some claims that the city purposely shorten the time between the light changes so they can catch more people. Anyway, there is money to save if you are willing to spend some time. Good luck!

Submitted by sdduuuude on October 11, 2011 - 10:56am.

Do they have video ?

Can they prove you didn't stop before turning right ?

Submitted by all on October 11, 2011 - 1:05pm.

There usually is video and the sensors are set to go off if you are driving faster than 15mph.

Submitted by UCGal on October 11, 2011 - 1:25pm.

sdduuuude wrote:
Do they have video ?

Can they prove you didn't stop before turning right ?


Hubster got one at Murphy Canyon and Aero. The photo they sent with the ticket made it look like he was just stopped. He was all set to fight it. Then he got a link to the video - and it was no longer an option to fight it - he rolled the stop at a right turn on red.

It's a VERY expensive ticket - and even more when you add in traffic school.

I've been beyond careful ever since. The $ amount is a serious deterrent.

Submitted by Scarlett on October 11, 2011 - 9:17pm.

Yes, there is video. Of course I didn't stop, had no reason to - there was a yellow right turn arrow that I thought I'd make it. But I am pretty sure I was below 15 mph. I did slow down. Not that it matters. :(

Submitted by rcfe on October 12, 2011 - 1:03pm.

The effect on me is that I try all means to avoid camera monitored intersection just in case the yellow light change to red and I am not reacting fast enough to stop. If can't avoid at all, I just slow down and hoping the light is red or will change to red before I approach. That way, I happily breathe out and stop. My worst nightmare is the light is green and no car in front of me, then I don't known when and how fast it will change to yellow.

Submitted by pabloesqobar on October 12, 2011 - 1:30pm.

Not a red light ticket, but I was pulled over and ticketed last week for making an illegal u-turn. I'm definitely going to request a court trial. No way would I trust a trial by declaration. I want to talk to the judge and have the officer show up and explain why he can't read and comprehend the vehicle code. It will be followed up by a letter to the PD with a suggestion that this officer receive some training.

Submitted by GH on October 12, 2011 - 10:17pm.

We really need to face the fact dangerous drivers should be fined not less that a billion dollars - a serious deterrent. Those who fail to pay will be paid a visit by armed police and they and their families will be dealt with like any other armed and dangerous criminal.

Seriously though.... $500 for rolling a red light on a corner. Have we gone mad?

Submitted by all on October 13, 2011 - 1:21am.

wanttobuy wrote:
The effect on me is that I try all means to avoid camera monitored intersection just in case the yellow light change to red and I am not reacting fast enough to stop. If can't avoid at all, I just slow down and hoping the light is red or will change to red before I approach. That way, I happily breathe out and stop. My worst nightmare is the light is green and no car in front of me, then I don't known when and how fast it will change to yellow.

You should not approach the intersection at speed higher than 25-30mph, which puts your breaking distance at 100ft or less. It should not be that hard to stop if you approach the intersection with the idea that yellow means stop if possible, not speed up.

On the other hand, whenever you get (and pay) a ticket you are doing a good deed by helping the local budget. I gave my $500 to the city of Poway few years back - rolling stop on red, caught on camera :)

Submitted by Scarlett on December 5, 2011 - 9:33pm.

Update:

I used ticketkick.com and I got my ticket dismissed. Let me put it this way - I would have rather paid $200 to the city budget. I was guilty, it would have been fair enough. But $500 was way too much.

Needless to say - since I go through that intersection almost every day on my way to work, I am now slowing way down and prepare to stop anyway all the time. That intersection red light camera flashes off almost at every light cycle!

Anyway, it is a good idea to know where the red light cameras are...

Submitted by Scarlett on December 5, 2011 - 9:20pm.

deleted -duplicate

Submitted by flu on December 5, 2011 - 9:52pm.

Scarlett wrote:
Update:

I used ticketkick.com and I got my ticket dismissed. Let me put it this way - I would have rather paid $200 to the city budget. I was guilty, it would have been fair enough. But $500 was way too much.

Needless to say - since I go through that intersection almost every day on my way to work, I am now slowing way down and prepare to stop anyway all the time. That intersection red light camera flashes off almost at every light cycle!

Anyway, it is a good idea to know where the red light cameras are...

Consider taking off your front and back license plate. If you get pulled over for it, it's a cheap "fix it" ticket

Submitted by JohnAlt91941 on December 5, 2011 - 10:53pm.

Red light runners should be fined more than they are, with license suspensions for subsequent offenses. It's dangerous.

That said, your rolling through a right turn seems relatively minor. The jackasses I'd like to see nailed are the ones who stretch out the left turn arrow. At Friars and Northside, it seems every time I'm going east on Friars there are 5-6 losers who turn left from the westbound side towards Costco, Ikea, etc, after the light changes.

Submitted by Blogstar on December 6, 2011 - 8:17am.

On the subject of tickets fines and speed. I vote for a $1000 fine for anyone who goes over 55 in the slow lane. Anyone who gets caught moving in from the fast lane to pass someone who is already going 65 goes to jail!

Submitted by flu on December 6, 2011 - 8:41am.

Jacarandoso wrote:
On the subject of tickets fines and speed. I vote for a $1000 fine for anyone who goes over 55 in the slow lane. Anyone who gets caught moving in from the fast lane to pass someone who is already going 65 goes to jail!

I vote for california changing the carpool lane to a $4000/annual membership paid lane, that requires an addition $2000/annual special class X license that involves extensive written and behind the wheel driving training and test to pass as stringent as the european driving tests, which includes pull into the right lane when someone wants to pass. Then I vote to have the speed limit removed for these membership paid lanes in non-congested areas and where the road condition/weather condition permits, otherwise mandatory speed limits still applies.

Anyone that is caught in the membership lane who isn't a member or who doesn't abide to the speed limits rules and or courtesy rules loses his/her membership privilege, spends 360 hrs of community service trash on the freeway, and is court ordered to drive a Yugo for 4 years or not drive at all.

I still sort of agree on the hefty punishment for a stop sign and red light violation. I don't think though the solution is monetary.. Perhaps mandatory community service...Like hours and hours of it. That way no-so-rich people don't get hammered economically for mistakes...And rich people don't laugh it off so easily.

Submitted by Blogstar on December 6, 2011 - 8:56am.

Until things change though, Flu, it would be safer if people would stop doing the things I mentioned on the freeway. Pretty fucked up when some one is bobbing a weaving around faster than than the flow of traffic.If they just raced over to the fast lane and tailgated at high speed that wouldn't be so bad. It is especially stupid when they wantonly race into the first two lanes,where mergers and exits are being negotiated. Not as bad a the woman who recently stopped in the center lane to make a u-turn to the off-ramp, but close.

Submitted by flu on December 6, 2011 - 9:30am.

Jacarandoso wrote:
Until things change though, Flu, it would be safer if people would stop doing the things I mentioned on the freeway. Pretty fucked up when some one is bobbing a weaving around faster than than the flow of traffic.If they just raced over to the fast lane and tailgated at high speed that wouldn't be so bad. It is especially stupid when they wantonly race into the first two lanes,where mergers and exits are being negotiated. Not as bad a the woman who recently stopped in the center lane to make a u-turn to the off-ramp, but close.

I take it to the track. But I know. I agree.

Part of the reason why I think some of these jerks bob and weave is both sides fault. The bober/weaver is impatient and wants to move faster... But there are people in the faster lane that don't yield right. I think that CA should enforce the yielding right rule, as much as cops should really crack down on bobber/weavers, particular the ones that do this with very little margin between cars.

Besides that issue, a lot of the U.S. freeways are not in such a good condition to be doing speeds that fast. Road surfaces are terrible.

The idea behind another class of license and another set of lanes, would be to make these for more "experienced" courteous drivers. I think part of the problem is that our driving tests are too much of a joke. Europeans goes through extensive amount of training and testing to get a license, and I believe I read somewhere that they have a much lower accident rate despite higher speed limits... I'm not advocating completely no speed limit, especially in CA, just increasing it in areas where conditions can accomodate. The stretch of 5 around San Ysidro is what I'm thinking of. Some of these more experienced license class would be heavily restricted.. No one under the age of XXX, no one over the age of XXX, and no one with more than XXX driving violations.. Vehicles must be equiped with BA testing.etc.etc.etc. No CUV/SUVs... I'd advocate CUV/SUVS or vehicles above a certain weight requiring a special license class to (driving dynamics way different).

Oh well. It's CA for crying out loud. Nothing is going to change because of all the special interest groups.

Submitted by desmond on December 6, 2011 - 10:45am.
Submitted by flu on December 6, 2011 - 12:02pm.

desmond wrote:
Flu,
I can see it now:
http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/12/05/4m-car-crash-in-japan-takes-out-eight-ferraris-one-lamborghini/

I'm sure we see a lot more pileups from big SUV drivers or people that still yap on the cell phone.

Just a few days ago, a soccer mom in a LX 570 was backing out of the driveway while I was walking. I saw her start to backup then she stopped... So I thought she saw me and started to walk across her driveway. Little did I know that she only stopped to get her cellphone and then she proceeded to back into into...It wasn't just rolling off the driveway. She floored it and barely missed me. She did say sorry though profusely...Those idiot drivers that crashed their 8 ferraris would have done so regardless if what rules were on the road. Because they suck. Tighter licensing rules probably would have helped.

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