OT: Obamacare decision rassling ring

User Forum Topic
Submitted by spdrun on June 28, 2012 - 9:26am

Submitted by squat300 on June 29, 2012 - 12:52pm.

I don't know anything about the law and really have no opinion on it other than it does seem like in the richest nation on earth you shouldn't be tied to a job for health innsurance reasons.

Submitted by DataAgent on June 29, 2012 - 1:47pm.

squat250 wrote:
I don't know anything about the law and really have no opinion on it other than it does seem like in the richest nation on earth you shouldn't be tied to a job for health innsurance reasons.

ditto

Submitted by Hobie on June 29, 2012 - 2:22pm.

You're not.
All of the self employed folks purchase health insurance on the open market at market price. Which is very high when compared to employer group policies.

Submitted by bearishgurl on June 29, 2012 - 2:51pm.

Hobie wrote:
You're not.
All of the self employed folks purchase health insurance on the open market at market price. Which is very high when compared to employer group policies.

It's only "very high" if the applicant has "pre-existing conditions." HOWEVER, the lower-priced individual policies have MUCH higher co-pays and deductibles than a typical employer-sponsored policy. I'm referring to PPO's here. Not sure if HMO's are actually more expensive on the open market for a healthy person as opposed to an employer policy because the healthy person is "underwritten" as an individual-policy applicant. An "employee" is not. This "underwriting" requirement will go away in 2014 under HCRA.

In any case, an employer usually pays at least 60% of the monthly premium and charges the employee for the balance. Some employers even subsidize the policies of the employees' immediate family members. A individual policy holder has to pay 100% of the premium but has far more choice in the type of coverage (and providers avail to them) than does an "employee" (who has to accept the plan(s) their employer offers).

Submitted by mike92104 on June 29, 2012 - 9:36pm.

I just wish the legislation had actually tried to tackle the cost rather than just determining who pays for it. The bill sucks ass, but all people hear is "Healthcare Reform", and therefore it must be good.

Submitted by zk on June 30, 2012 - 12:16am.

briansd1 wrote:
Victory for my side! ;)

Maybe. Maybe not.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/john-...

Submitted by svelte on June 30, 2012 - 1:03am.

zk wrote:
briansd1 wrote:
Victory for my side! ;)

Maybe. Maybe not.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/john-roberts-evil-genius-article-1.1103982

We shall seee, zk. We shall see....

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on June 30, 2012 - 1:46am.

briansd1 wrote:

Allan, I bet that if you invited your daughter's boyfriend's parents over for dinner, you'd rather they came in a Prius than a jacked-up 4x4.

Brian: Touche. You're absolutely right on that one. Although, I'd prefer something a little less smug than a Prius.

You'll never change my mind on tofu. That shit is wretched.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on June 30, 2012 - 1:49am.

svelte wrote:
zk wrote:
briansd1 wrote:
Victory for my side! ;)

Maybe. Maybe not.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/john-roberts-evil-genius-article-1.1103982

We shall seee, zk. We shall see....

I think SCOTUS handed a victory of sorts to both sides. Obama has to be heaving a sigh of relief, but the Romney campaign is reporting a huge donation windfall and largely from small donors (as opposed to Dr. Evil, Sheldon Adelson.) Conventional wisdom has it that small donors = votes.

Both sides are energized by the decision, that's for sure.

Submitted by ocrenter on June 30, 2012 - 11:58am.

I loved how for the whole day the Fair and Balanced FOX news had a neat "obamaTAX" corner graphic on.

Submitted by flu on June 30, 2012 - 12:54pm.

Don't forget about the two new tax surcharges that some of you folks will now be paying for as a result of obamacare.

http://www.cliftonlarsonallen.com/inside...


3.8 percent net investment income tax

Beginning in 2013, higher income individuals with net investment income will be subject to a 3.8 percent tax of the lesser of two amounts:

Your net investment income, or
the excess of the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income over a $200,000 (single) or $250,000 (joint filers) threshold amount.

If the taxpayer’s adjusted gross income is greater than the $200,000/$250,000 threshold, the excess becomes a limitation on the amount of net investment income exposed to the surtax. For example, if a joint return has a modified adjusted gross income of $260,000, the $10,000 excess becomes the limitation.

Also tax #2


Medicare surcharge tax on earned income

Presently, the Medicare tax applies to all wages and self-employment income. For wage earners, both the employer and the employee pay 1.45 percent, whereas a self-employed taxpayer pays the entire 2.9 percent.

Beginning in 2013, the health care legislation imposes an additional 0.9 percent surtax — but only on higher income households. The tax applies to income in excess of:

A single person’s wage and self-employment income over $200,000, or
the combined wage and self-employment income of a married couple exceeding $250,000.

“There is no employer match on the 0.9 percent,” says Chris Hesse, a tax partner with CliftonLarsonAllen. “This tax is entirely paid by the employee or the self-employed individual. There will be employer withholding, but if you are self-employed, you will need to build this into your quarterly tax estimates. And some joint filers will have less withheld than their combined 0.9 percent tax.”

Then again, I'm sure a lot of piss ants will say if you earn 200/250k, then you should pay more taxes. Some other piss ants will say it's "just an incremental tax"...

all while not having to pay the tax themselves, and/or all while collecting a public pension...

Notice the fine print of these taxes. It taxes individual's passive income. BUT if you conduct business in sort of way, you won't be subject to it..Same old same old.

Submitted by flu on June 30, 2012 - 12:53pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
briansd1 wrote:

Allan, I bet that if you invited your daughter's boyfriend's parents over for dinner, you'd rather they came in a Prius than a jacked-up 4x4.

Brian: Touche. You're absolutely right on that one. Although, I'd prefer something a little less smug than a Prius.

You'll never change my mind on tofu. That shit is wretched.

Shit...Time for me to sell my truck...But I have a few more years.

Submitted by Aecetia on June 30, 2012 - 4:25pm.

flu,

I sent you some more of the taxes that apply to many working people and not just the "rich."

Submitted by Hobie on June 30, 2012 - 5:13pm.

Hey, send me them too.! Or post them. Maybe we need to start a new thread of new 'non'-taxes as a result of ACA.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on June 30, 2012 - 6:57pm.

flu wrote:
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
briansd1 wrote:

Allan, I bet that if you invited your daughter's boyfriend's parents over for dinner, you'd rather they came in a Prius than a jacked-up 4x4.

Brian: Touche. You're absolutely right on that one. Although, I'd prefer something a little less smug than a Prius.

You'll never change my mind on tofu. That shit is wretched.

Shit...Time for me to sell my truck...But I have a few more years.

FLU: Ah, dude, that rule wouldn't apply to you! I think just the sight of you deplaning from a lifted 4x4 would be worth the price of admission. Of course, the truck would need a gun rack and a Confederate flag in the rear window. Oh, and those classy female cutouts on the mudflaps. Crank some Lynryd Skynyrd ("Sweet Home Alabama" or "Freebird") on the 8-track and you'd be in bidness!

Submitted by flu on June 30, 2012 - 7:06pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
flu wrote:
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
briansd1 wrote:

Allan, I bet that if you invited your daughter's boyfriend's parents over for dinner, you'd rather they came in a Prius than a jacked-up 4x4.

Brian: Touche. You're absolutely right on that one. Although, I'd prefer something a little less smug than a Prius.

You'll never change my mind on tofu. That shit is wretched.

Shit...Time for me to sell my truck...But I have a few more years.

FLU: Ah, dude, that rule wouldn't apply to you! I think just the sight of you deplaning from a lifted 4x4 would be worth the price of admission. Of course, the truck would need a gun rack and a Confederate flag in the rear window. Oh, and those classy female cutouts on the mudflaps. Crank some Lynryd Skynyrd ("Sweet Home Alabama" or "Freebird") on the 8-track and you'd be in bidness!

Would mind if I show up with truck nutz on the hitch?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_nuts

I considering getting one and put it onto my X5 hitch that I just got. I'm sure Carmel Valley soccer moms would just love that....

But in all seriousness I really really want an F150 raptor... Those things kick ass totally.

I've already got a confederate flag ready. I got one from a KKK rally I went to in Chicago when I was an intern one time.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on June 30, 2012 - 9:55pm.

flu wrote:

But in all seriousness I really really want an F150 raptor... Those things kick ass totally.

I've already got a confederate flag ready. I got one from a KKK rally I went to in Chicago when I was an intern one time.

FLU: Yeah, those things are badass. I spoke to a coach at a skills camp who just finished tweaking his (it was black on black and all the upgrades were done real cleanly), and loved it.

He had the 6.2L and had performance tuned the plant. Told me he could smoke pretty much anything off the line and that it handled surprisingly well for a truck.

I had an F-350 King Ranch with the twin turbo diesel and could jolly stomp a Porsche off the light (truck had BAGS of torque), so I'm not surprised.

Throw your Confederate flag on that sucker and you're good to go. I'd trade out Lynryd Skynyrd for some All Shall Perish or Ministry, though.

Submitted by paramount on July 1, 2012 - 12:28am.
Submitted by briansd1 on July 2, 2012 - 3:28pm.

I'm seeing a lot of flip flopping on the part of Romney on the tax thing.

An adviser to former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney broke from the messaging of other Republicans Monday, arguing that the health-care mandate in the Affordable Care Act is not a tax.

“The governor disagreed with the ruling of the court, he agreed with the dissent that was written by Justice Scalia, that very clearly said that the mandate was not a tax,” Eric Fehrnstrom said on MSNBC. “The governor believes what we put in place in Massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the Court’s ruling that the mandate was a tax.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-...

As SK mentioned before, Roberts is a corporatist. And at first, ACA is a give-away to the insurance companies.... But I believe that, over the years, the business community, as a whole, will embrace ACA as a way of holding down costs.

We need to prevent health costs from growing beyond the current 18% of GDP, while expanding health care to all. That will mean some rationing, but it's all for better, IMO.

Unlike an earlier poster, I believe that certain minimal health coverage should be available to everyone, with Cadillac coverage as extra options.

Submitted by briansd1 on July 2, 2012 - 3:36pm.

And of course, we need to old drug companies accountable like the Justice Department's recent settlement with Glaxo.

WASHINGTON — GlaxoSmithKline LLC will pay $3 billion and plead guilty to promoting two popular drugs for unapproved uses and to failing to disclose important safety information on a third in the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history, the Justice Department said Monday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/c...

Submitted by briansd1 on July 2, 2012 - 8:32pm.

harvey wrote:

It's the same tired old argument: Obama loses, even when he wins.

I find this quite common among the right-wing these days.

We now often hear arguments such as: "an Obama victory is the best thing that can happen to the Republican party", "they are all the same so it doesn't matter; but I still prefer the Republicans", "Roberts followed the Constitution and preemptively protected conservative values into the future although the Commerce Clause has not changed".

Republican values are now so indefensible that their supporters can't even point to anything positive. So they fall back to: "they are all the same; but we all lost because you won."

Remember the Bush doctrine of preemptive defense? You annihilate the future enemy before he can attack you.

So now, according to some, we have Roberts' preemptive jurisprudence. You rule for the other side, so that you can preemptively defend your own values later. Pure genius. Who needs Scalia when we now have Roberts?

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