My only recommendation is after you decide...when it comes to negotiate on price, a good option is to get Costco pricing, then start negotiating from there and play all the local dealers against each other.
Worked well for us recently.
Another option I've used in the past is avoid the salesman and go straight to the fleet manager and research what other people are paying, research their inventory, then offer the lowest price you've seen on the internet.
Some dealers also have discounts for attending their events so you can attend an event, get a coupon to purchase, and use it there afterwards.
I can't believe I'm going to say this but.
Out of all .
My purchase preference would be (top to bottom)
BMW 325
Infiniti G37
Audi A4
Mercedes C300
A4's have gotten porky these days, and they only come with the 4 banger 2.0 which unless you're planning to modify, is just so ho-hum these days.
For price/performance Audi's price out more than BMW's these days. Comparo would be price out an S5 versus an M3, and you end up paying almost the same (when the S5 matches the 335 performance not the M3)...I can't imagine how much the RS5 would be.
It's not really a fair comparo because
A4 2.0 isn't exactly a match with a 325, C300
G37 performance matches closer with the 335 and the S4/S5
G37 probably tops the performance/reliability category...But BMW come with 4 years for free scheduled maintenance and are covered with a 4/50 warranty. So imho for the first 4 years of ownership, it's a wash. Audi you can buy a 4 year maintenance package for a few hundred, you can't with a Mercedes (And frankly their reliability has been in the gutter lately).
I would go for the 3-series. A friend has the new M3 and it is awesome. For my the last car purchase I decided to go green and considered a 335d. In the end I went with a Prius full of gadgets.
I had a BMW 3 series (E46) for two years and I was reasonably pleased. It was underpowered but well put together.
A4 costs extra because of the all-wheel-drive, which you don't need in San Diego climate (and it's not an off-roader, either). G35/G37 used to be quite bulky compared to others in its class, but I'm not sure how it compares today.
I have a Lexus IS 300 (is a 2003 model - before they started making the IS 250/350). Great car - love it - love the Lexus dealer - sporty but also practical - back seat is comfortable enough for passengers (I don't have people there very often or for very long) - one caveat - trunk is small. But mechanically - no problems - I look longingly at getter a newer model but I just can't justify as mine is still so perfect and I am still happy driving it after 4 years (I bought used).
My preference would be:
G37 > 328i > C300 > A4 2.0T
Since you mentioned price and reliability and everything else under etc. I think G37 scores highest in price/reliability. Here are the prices according to Carsdirect.com of a relatively fully loaded cars:
G37 - $35,784
328i - $42,665
C300 - $43,798
A4 - $38,570
So, comparably equipped, the G37 is ~$3k-8k cheaper than the Germans. Even with the free maintenance of BMW, you still won't make up the $7k price difference, especially if you stick to their maintenance schedule.
If you plan to keep the car well past 100k miles, although I don't have personal experience w/ the BMW or Audi, I can say Infiniti is much more reliable than the Benz and much cheaper to maintain after you're out of warranty too. FYI, if you buy the Infiniti, you can always bring it in to any Nissan dealer and they'll maintain it for you, since it shares a lot of parts w/ the 370Z. It'll save you a lot of $ in maintenance if you don't care about being pampered. Mercedes tried to charge me for a $900 oil change once.
Submitted by CafeMoto on August 31, 2010 - 9:56pm.
I would drive them all and buy the one you fall in love with and can afford. Personally I would look into buying a used one for the huge discount off new and maybe step up in size to a 5 series or E class. My vote: 328, C300, then A4, and last the G37. I have not driven them all but I did not care for the G35 sedan I tested with 20K miles. I really liked Flu's analysis.
It was true before. But frankly, I think the German's are getting crazy about bloating the cars.
BMW 3 series was suppose to be the affordable luxury..Fully loaded 3 series can ring up $50k (335), which is just ridiculous.
Audi A4's are the same way. You can spend $40k on a 2.0T engine...
C300 are nice, but sorry the reliability on a Mercedes are just headaches. Plus servicing these things are $$$$. It use to be all the german cars provided free scheduled maintenance, but not anymore. BMW is the only one doing this (Audi you can buy a package)... This would definitely make me cross of the C300 the list if I was concerned about upkeep cost. I've never been able to make it out Mercedes of SD with a maintenance bill less that $100 each time, because for one thing it it will require 6+ quarts of full synthetic, not including the labor.
The other thing I'd be concerned about the latest Audi's with are the FSI engine....Great engines, but they until recently they haven't been enough long term "real world" examples of what happens with these engines that squirk fuel directly into the combustion chambers. The feedback for longer term owners is that, there's a lot of concern about (1) excessive carbon buildup and (2)need for more frequent oil changes because the oil breaksdown quicker..even synthetic..Probably not a concern if you aren't going to keep the car for a long time. But if you plan on it, just google for "FSI engine problems" or "Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread" and make the appropriate decisions...
I'd stick to the BMW 3 series for the true German balanced machine, at the sacrifice of less power. But G37 would top the A4 and C300 for me.
Regarding A4's. Just don't get one that isn't AWD. Because otherwise they are FWD, and A4's in general already tend to understeer (though the latest ones are better than before). Unfortunately, you'll have a heavier car and slightly less gas mileage though. Curb weight of the A4 is 3680...It's overweight and needs to go on diet.
I think the e90/e92 is a more driver's car than the f30....
I drove a f30 328 recently as a loaner. It feels like a nice luxury lexus, not a bmw.
What the hell is going on BMW?
Kinda disappointed, but oh well guess it will sell well. Seems like the new 3 has gotten porkier... Minor grips....I can't stand what the did with the Nav display. I thought it would retract or something, but it doesn't. It just seems like the interior designer designed the rest of the inside first, and then said "oh, wait, I forgot about the nav screen. Let's just stick it here"..You'll know what I mean when you see it in person. Glad they had a real hand brake instead of an e-brake though.
I think the e90/e92 is a more driver's car than the f30....
sdr when are you gonna chip that thing?
I have high hope for the F30 M3 due its turbo I6. I'm also looking forward to the new Infiniti G30t as well. It should share platform w/ the next Mercedes C-class (which they say shed some weight from the current one). My hope is ~3300 lb and turbo V6. I also heard the next C-class AMG will be turbo V6 as well. The next wave of cars around $40-60k sound like it'll be fun for us enthusiast (lighter and turbo).
I think the e90/e92 is a more driver's car than the f30....
sdr when are you gonna chip that thing?
I have high hope for the F30 M3 due its turbo I6. I'm also looking forward to the new Infiniti G30t as well. It should share platform w/ the next Mercedes C-class (which they say shed some weight from the current one). My hope is ~3300 lb and turbo V6. I also heard the next C-class AMG will be turbo V6 as well. The next wave of cars around $40-60k sound like it'll be fun for us enthusiast (lighter and turbo).
AN,
I heard that the GTR is being canned. Maybe we should go get one before then... Team FLU and AN :)
Oh, wait but dual clutches suck and the GTR is a sissy car...
Quick question. Why infiniti, and not a stripped down Z?
I'm hoping for things back down to 3200. My B5 a4 weighs about that much, and even then I think it feels like a porker. I'm really trying to get a used miata, and turn that into spec miata for my weekend special.
AN,
I heard that the GTR is being canned. Maybe we should go get one before then... Team FLU and AN :)
Oh, wait but dual clutches suck and the GTR is a sissy car...
Quick question. Why infiniti, and not a stripped down Z?
I'm hoping for things back down to 3200. My B5 a4 weighs about that much, and even then I think it feels like a porker. I'm really trying to get a used miata, and turn that into spec miata for my weekend special.
Yeah, I heard they're thinking of canning the GTR as well. I looked for used ones and not too many are available. Even 2009 model are selling for around $60k and they were selling new at high $60k. That's what you call retaining your value. I'm not ready for a GTR type track car yet, so Team FLUAN would have to wait.
I'm not set on Infiniti yet. What I want is a 4 door luxury car with turbo 6-cylinders or larger and priced around $40k. My current option looks like M5, M3, next C-class AMG, 335i, next C-class (assuming the rumor is true with turbo V6), Infiniti G30t. I like value, so G30t or M5 would probably be highest on my list. But, it really depends on the tune-ability of the G30t as well. 335i with chip + intake & exhaust only make around 370WHP. So, I expect the G30t to be more responsive to mods than that, or I might consider 335 instead.
The reason I don't want a stripped down Z is because I need/want a 4 door and I already have a 2-door G35. A Z is not that much lighter than my car and I get two extra back seat. I'm keeping my G, so a Z would be redundant IMHO. Unless they reduce the weight to around 2800lb-2900lb.
If you're thinking a used Miata for track, why not consider an Exige? Or wait for the next Miata. It supposed to be around 2200lb instead of 2500lb (the current gen Miata) and it supposed to be turbo as well. So, hopefully, you'll get tune-ability and light weight.
Lotta benz bashing. I have 2 MBs and have not had a problem with either. My 2006 ML350 is just about to clock over 100k and so far no real issues (other than it goes through lights faster than any car I've owned). My wifes 2010 E350 has been rock solid so far but then again it's got less than 30K on it so time will tell. But so far I have give them solid marks.
I test drove all the cars you mentioned before buying the E350 (We were actually looking at the smaller cars but at the last minute my wife decided she wanted a bigger car). The Audi did not drive like a high end car. It bored me to tears. The G37 also did not quite have the feel of the German cars. Although I was tempted by the price. At the end of the year you can buy these WAY below sticker. The benz and the beemer were very similar and I could have gone either way. we liked the styling of the Benz better. Oh and the fact we blew up a tranny on one Beemer test drive did not exactly fill my wife with confidence. The benz is the most expensive when comparing similar features. The free maint on the beemer will save you about $1000 to $1500 over the benz ($250 to $350 per service, every $13k miles). Test drive them and pick the one YOU like the best (and can afford).
My only recommendation is after you decide...when it comes to negotiate on price, a good option is to get Costco pricing, then start negotiating from there and play all the local dealers against each other.
Worked well for us recently.
Another option I've used in the past is avoid the salesman and go straight to the fleet manager and research what other people are paying, research their inventory, then offer the lowest price you've seen on the internet.
Some dealers also have discounts for attending their events so you can attend an event, get a coupon to purchase, and use it there afterwards.
I can't believe I'm going to say this but.
Out of all .
My purchase preference would be (top to bottom)
BMW 325
Infiniti G37
Audi A4
Mercedes C300
A4's have gotten porky these days, and they only come with the 4 banger 2.0 which unless you're planning to modify, is just so ho-hum these days.
For price/performance Audi's price out more than BMW's these days. Comparo would be price out an S5 versus an M3, and you end up paying almost the same (when the S5 matches the 335 performance not the M3)...I can't imagine how much the RS5 would be.
It's not really a fair comparo because
A4 2.0 isn't exactly a match with a 325, C300
G37 performance matches closer with the 335 and the S4/S5
G37 probably tops the performance/reliability category...But BMW come with 4 years for free scheduled maintenance and are covered with a 4/50 warranty. So imho for the first 4 years of ownership, it's a wash. Audi you can buy a 4 year maintenance package for a few hundred, you can't with a Mercedes (And frankly their reliability has been in the gutter lately).
I would go for the 3-series. A friend has the new M3 and it is awesome. For my the last car purchase I decided to go green and considered a 335d. In the end I went with a Prius full of gadgets.
G37
It's a bit roomier than a 3-Series, with outstanding all around performance.
I had a BMW 3 series (E46) for two years and I was reasonably pleased. It was underpowered but well put together.
A4 costs extra because of the all-wheel-drive, which you don't need in San Diego climate (and it's not an off-roader, either). G35/G37 used to be quite bulky compared to others in its class, but I'm not sure how it compares today.
Lexus IS 350
I have a Lexus IS 300 (is a 2003 model - before they started making the IS 250/350). Great car - love it - love the Lexus dealer - sporty but also practical - back seat is comfortable enough for passengers (I don't have people there very often or for very long) - one caveat - trunk is small. But mechanically - no problems - I look longingly at getter a newer model but I just can't justify as mine is still so perfect and I am still happy driving it after 4 years (I bought used).
My preference would be:
G37 > 328i > C300 > A4 2.0T
Since you mentioned price and reliability and everything else under etc. I think G37 scores highest in price/reliability. Here are the prices according to Carsdirect.com of a relatively fully loaded cars:
G37 - $35,784
328i - $42,665
C300 - $43,798
A4 - $38,570
So, comparably equipped, the G37 is ~$3k-8k cheaper than the Germans. Even with the free maintenance of BMW, you still won't make up the $7k price difference, especially if you stick to their maintenance schedule.
If you plan to keep the car well past 100k miles, although I don't have personal experience w/ the BMW or Audi, I can say Infiniti is much more reliable than the Benz and much cheaper to maintain after you're out of warranty too. FYI, if you buy the Infiniti, you can always bring it in to any Nissan dealer and they'll maintain it for you, since it shares a lot of parts w/ the 370Z. It'll save you a lot of $ in maintenance if you don't care about being pampered. Mercedes tried to charge me for a $900 oil change once.
I would drive them all and buy the one you fall in love with and can afford. Personally I would look into buying a used one for the huge discount off new and maybe step up in size to a 5 series or E class. My vote: 328, C300, then A4, and last the G37. I have not driven them all but I did not care for the G35 sedan I tested with 20K miles. I really liked Flu's analysis.
I favor the German cars over the Japanese as they tend to be more fun to drive. Infiniti may be the exception - it drives very peppy.
My ranking:
328 - Audi 5 - G37 - C300.
It was true before. But frankly, I think the German's are getting crazy about bloating the cars.
BMW 3 series was suppose to be the affordable luxury..Fully loaded 3 series can ring up $50k (335), which is just ridiculous.
Audi A4's are the same way. You can spend $40k on a 2.0T engine...
C300 are nice, but sorry the reliability on a Mercedes are just headaches. Plus servicing these things are $$$$. It use to be all the german cars provided free scheduled maintenance, but not anymore. BMW is the only one doing this (Audi you can buy a package)... This would definitely make me cross of the C300 the list if I was concerned about upkeep cost. I've never been able to make it out Mercedes of SD with a maintenance bill less that $100 each time, because for one thing it it will require 6+ quarts of full synthetic, not including the labor.
The other thing I'd be concerned about the latest Audi's with are the FSI engine....Great engines, but they until recently they haven't been enough long term "real world" examples of what happens with these engines that squirk fuel directly into the combustion chambers. The feedback for longer term owners is that, there's a lot of concern about (1) excessive carbon buildup and (2)need for more frequent oil changes because the oil breaksdown quicker..even synthetic..Probably not a concern if you aren't going to keep the car for a long time. But if you plan on it, just google for "FSI engine problems" or "Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread" and make the appropriate decisions...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread...
I'd stick to the BMW 3 series for the true German balanced machine, at the sacrifice of less power. But G37 would top the A4 and C300 for me.
Regarding A4's. Just don't get one that isn't AWD. Because otherwise they are FWD, and A4's in general already tend to understeer (though the latest ones are better than before). Unfortunately, you'll have a heavier car and slightly less gas mileage though. Curb weight of the A4 is 3680...It's overweight and needs to go on diet.
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. This helps. Much appreciated.
Ahhh... I hope it's not as disappointing as the rest of the f30's....
http://www.motorauthority.com/pictures/1...
I think the e90/e92 is a more driver's car than the f30....
I drove a f30 328 recently as a loaner. It feels like a nice luxury lexus, not a bmw.
What the hell is going on BMW?
Kinda disappointed, but oh well guess it will sell well. Seems like the new 3 has gotten porkier... Minor grips....I can't stand what the did with the Nav display. I thought it would retract or something, but it doesn't. It just seems like the interior designer designed the rest of the inside first, and then said "oh, wait, I forgot about the nav screen. Let's just stick it here"..You'll know what I mean when you see it in person. Glad they had a real hand brake instead of an e-brake though.
sdr when are you gonna chip that thing?
http://www.motorauthority.com/pictures/1...
I think the e90/e92 is a more driver's car than the f30....
sdr when are you gonna chip that thing?
I have high hope for the F30 M3 due its turbo I6. I'm also looking forward to the new Infiniti G30t as well. It should share platform w/ the next Mercedes C-class (which they say shed some weight from the current one). My hope is ~3300 lb and turbo V6. I also heard the next C-class AMG will be turbo V6 as well. The next wave of cars around $40-60k sound like it'll be fun for us enthusiast (lighter and turbo).
http://www.motorauthority.com/pictures/1...
I think the e90/e92 is a more driver's car than the f30....
sdr when are you gonna chip that thing?
I have high hope for the F30 M3 due its turbo I6. I'm also looking forward to the new Infiniti G30t as well. It should share platform w/ the next Mercedes C-class (which they say shed some weight from the current one). My hope is ~3300 lb and turbo V6. I also heard the next C-class AMG will be turbo V6 as well. The next wave of cars around $40-60k sound like it'll be fun for us enthusiast (lighter and turbo).
AN,
I heard that the GTR is being canned. Maybe we should go get one before then... Team FLU and AN :)
Oh, wait but dual clutches suck and the GTR is a sissy car...
Quick question. Why infiniti, and not a stripped down Z?
I'm hoping for things back down to 3200. My B5 a4 weighs about that much, and even then I think it feels like a porker. I'm really trying to get a used miata, and turn that into spec miata for my weekend special.
I heard that the GTR is being canned. Maybe we should go get one before then... Team FLU and AN :)
Oh, wait but dual clutches suck and the GTR is a sissy car...
Quick question. Why infiniti, and not a stripped down Z?
I'm hoping for things back down to 3200. My B5 a4 weighs about that much, and even then I think it feels like a porker. I'm really trying to get a used miata, and turn that into spec miata for my weekend special.
Yeah, I heard they're thinking of canning the GTR as well. I looked for used ones and not too many are available. Even 2009 model are selling for around $60k and they were selling new at high $60k. That's what you call retaining your value. I'm not ready for a GTR type track car yet, so Team FLUAN would have to wait.
I'm not set on Infiniti yet. What I want is a 4 door luxury car with turbo 6-cylinders or larger and priced around $40k. My current option looks like M5, M3, next C-class AMG, 335i, next C-class (assuming the rumor is true with turbo V6), Infiniti G30t. I like value, so G30t or M5 would probably be highest on my list. But, it really depends on the tune-ability of the G30t as well. 335i with chip + intake & exhaust only make around 370WHP. So, I expect the G30t to be more responsive to mods than that, or I might consider 335 instead.
The reason I don't want a stripped down Z is because I need/want a 4 door and I already have a 2-door G35. A Z is not that much lighter than my car and I get two extra back seat. I'm keeping my G, so a Z would be redundant IMHO. Unless they reduce the weight to around 2800lb-2900lb.
If you're thinking a used Miata for track, why not consider an Exige? Or wait for the next Miata. It supposed to be around 2200lb instead of 2500lb (the current gen Miata) and it supposed to be turbo as well. So, hopefully, you'll get tune-ability and light weight.
OT: OMG... Did you guys see the chopped up Ford GT.
The car thieves should be shot.
http://www.utsandiego.com/photos/galleri...
That's bizarre. Can't imagine a huge market for stolen Ford GT parts.
For some comedy, check out what Top Gear has to say about them.
Lotta benz bashing. I have 2 MBs and have not had a problem with either. My 2006 ML350 is just about to clock over 100k and so far no real issues (other than it goes through lights faster than any car I've owned). My wifes 2010 E350 has been rock solid so far but then again it's got less than 30K on it so time will tell. But so far I have give them solid marks.
I test drove all the cars you mentioned before buying the E350 (We were actually looking at the smaller cars but at the last minute my wife decided she wanted a bigger car). The Audi did not drive like a high end car. It bored me to tears. The G37 also did not quite have the feel of the German cars. Although I was tempted by the price. At the end of the year you can buy these WAY below sticker. The benz and the beemer were very similar and I could have gone either way. we liked the styling of the Benz better. Oh and the fact we blew up a tranny on one Beemer test drive did not exactly fill my wife with confidence. The benz is the most expensive when comparing similar features. The free maint on the beemer will save you about $1000 to $1500 over the benz ($250 to $350 per service, every $13k miles). Test drive them and pick the one YOU like the best (and can afford).
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