OT: Do Assume That Your Representative Will Vote on the NRA Side or Abstain

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Submitted by KIBU on January 24, 2013 - 8:45pm

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

Find your reps and tell them what you think about the mass massacre in America.

It is a fact that while there are many people who may support commonsense gun safety laws, the majority of them have not done much to tell the politicians or contribute to organizations.

On the other hand, the pro-guns are the ones who are much more tightly organized, energized, and contributed much more money for their cause. They are also counting on you forgetting what happened in Newtown, just as you have forgotten what happened with other massacre and you will be inaction again.

Let's get this government to work for you so our young children in America can be safe and enjoy their normal life without fear. Don't let the special interests like the NRA yet again shut your voice.

Submitted by Huckleberry on January 24, 2013 - 9:06pm.

LOL. Another anti 2nd amendment plea...

Good luck with that.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 24, 2013 - 9:33pm.

RONALD REAGAN quotes on gun control...

“This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety ... While we recognize that assault-weapon legislation will not stop all assault-weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals.”

Ronald Reagan, in a May 3, 1994 letter to the U.S. House of Representatives, which was also signed by Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford.

“I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.”

Ronald Reagan, in a speech at his 78th birthday celebration in Los Angeles on February 6, 1989.

“Certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational, or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited.”

Ronald Reagan, in an August 28, 1986 signing statement on a bill that banned the production and importation of armor-piercing bullets.
“With the right to bear arms comes a great responsibility to use caution and common sense on handgun purchases.”

“Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns. This level of violence must be stopped.”

Ronald Reagan, in a March 29, 1991 New York Times op-ed in support of the Brady Bill.
“I think maybe there could be some restrictions that there had to be a certain amount of training taken.”

Ronald Reagan

“Well, I think there has to be some [gun] control.”

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 24, 2013 - 9:35pm.

most people agree Reagan was a pragmatic, reasonable conservative dude...

nowadays, we're left with a bunch of fucking whackjobs.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 24, 2013 - 9:38pm.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...

The Secret History of Guns

The Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership—and regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers—the true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there’s no resolution in sight....

Submitted by poorgradstudent on January 25, 2013 - 3:16pm.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jan/...

Sounds like Davis, Issa, Hunter, and Vargas are all pretty locked into their respective positions. Scott Peters is a wild card; I haven't found anything he's said on record about the issue.

Submitted by cvmom on January 25, 2013 - 3:28pm.

Thanks KIBU and squat for the great posts. I think you are right that those in favor of gun control tend to be less aggressive in promoting their viewpoints, most importantly to our representatives. I will be contacting mine and asking my friends to do the same.

Submitted by Blogstar on January 25, 2013 - 3:56pm.

He has an A+ grade with the NRA.

Submitted by cvmom on January 25, 2013 - 9:23pm.

I don't think Scott Peters has been rated yet...couldn't find it online, anyway. At least we have a better chance with him.

Submitted by DataAgent on January 27, 2013 - 9:26am.

cvmom wrote:
I don't think Scott Peters has been rated yet...couldn't find it online, anyway. At least we have a better chance with him.

Scott Peters on gun control:
http://www.pomeradonews.com/2013/01/18/r...

Submitted by KIBU on January 27, 2013 - 6:11pm.

In my humble opinion, it is important to write and make sure they receive it, regardless of how one thinks the reps will vote. The more clear message we send them the better. It is to give them the message that we are serious and the number of people who care about this issue is important for their next re-elections.

Once the reps voted on this issue in the next weeks, will have much more information and perhaps, someone then should make a list of the grades to assess these reps on how they vote on this issue.

The NRA only needed to teach a few politicians the hard way and then magically almost all of politicians fell in line because they were scared of the NRA. It's time that they should take us more seriously.

Submitted by CA renter on January 27, 2013 - 7:28pm.

If you look at the poll numbers right here on Piggington, you'll see that the vast majority of people strongly support the Second Amendment. It's not just the NRA, it's most Americans.

http://piggington.com/poll_should_2nd_am...

Submitted by paramount on January 27, 2013 - 7:51pm.

Newtown Shooting Latest: Was Assault Rifle Really Used?

It's been six weeks since a Total POS broke into a Newtown, CT grade school and massacred 26 people, and the debate still rages about whether a semiautomatic weapon was actually used.

There's a news clip on YouTube, showing an aerial view of state troopers removing a long gun from the trunk of the POS's vehicle. The footage has probably been viewed millions of times, so there's obviously major healthy skepticism out there.

The police changed their narrative so many times, it's tough to know what to believe anymore. Originally, the public was told the POS used two handguns and the rifle was left in the car. Troopers subsequently amended that statement, saying the autistic killer had two pistols and an AR-15 on him during the Newtown shooting. According to the official line, the long gun removed from the POS's trunk was a shotgun.

Having trouble keeping track of all this? Well, you're not alone, and that's why millions of Americans maintain a healthy skepticism about this tragic event. During the last few days, many Facebook users have been sharing MSNBC footage, which proves the POS was not in possession of an AR-15 inside the Newtown school last month.

One thing is for certain, which is that the controversy is not disappearing anytime soon. Citizens trust their government less now, than at any time in American history.

Submitted by KIBU on February 1, 2013 - 9:53pm.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/us/alabama...

"Neighbors have described Dykes as "anti-government" and abusive, with several describing run-ins, including one where they claimed he pulled a gun.

Tim Byrd, chief investigator with the Dale County Sheriff's Office, told the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hatewatch that Dykes was a "survivalist type" with "anti-America" views".

My question is this: is this an anomaly or are we seeing more of these "anti-government" , "anti-America" dudes?

Submitted by CA renter on February 1, 2013 - 10:30pm.

KIBU wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/us/alabama-child-hostage/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

"Neighbors have described Dykes as "anti-government" and abusive, with several describing run-ins, including one where they claimed he pulled a gun.

Tim Byrd, chief investigator with the Dale County Sheriff's Office, told the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hatewatch that Dykes was a "survivalist type" with "anti-America" views".

My question is this: is this an anomaly or are we seeing more of these "anti-government" , "anti-America" dudes?

Now we can lump people who don't trust the government with those who abduct kids (let's just call them "anti-American" and "survivalist-types" to really juice things up). This way, they can justify illegal searches, arrests, etc. by lumping those who don't trust the government with "domestic terrorists" and "child abductors."

Submitted by KIBU on February 1, 2013 - 11:31pm.

The line is pretty fine.

These dudes with anti-government rhetoric everywhere I hear (they are pretty vocal now) and the dude who exploded the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh sound kind of familiar to me. This is from Wikipedia on Timothy McVeigh:
-------------------------------------------
1993 Waco siege and gun shows

In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." He told a student reporter:

The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[24]

For the five months following the Waco Siege, McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed up with Lon Horiuchi's name and address, "in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter." (Horiuchi is an FBI sniper and some of his official actions have drawn controversy, specifically his shooting and killing of Randy Weaver's wife while she held an infant child.) He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that "what goes around, comes around," and he later considered putting aside his plan to target the Murrah Building to target Horiuchi, or a member of his family instead.[25]

McVeigh spent more time on the gun show circuit,[when?] traveling to 40 states and visiting about 80 gun shows. McVeigh found that the further west he went, the more anti-government sentiment he encountered, at least until he got to what he called "The People's Socialist Republic of California."[26] McVeigh sold survival items and copies of The Turner Diaries. One author said:

In the gun show culture, McVeigh found a home. Though he remained skeptical of some of the most extreme ideas being bandied around, he liked talking to people there about the United Nations, the federal government and possible threats to American liberty.[27]
----------------------

Submitted by paramount on February 2, 2013 - 1:54pm.

KIBU wrote:
The line is pretty fine.

These dudes with anti-government rhetoric everywhere I hear (they are pretty vocal now) and the dude who exploded the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh sound kind of familiar to me. This is from Wikipedia on Timothy McVeigh:
-------------------------------------------
1993 Waco siege and gun shows

In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." He told a student reporter:

The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[24]

For the five months following the Waco Siege, McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed up with Lon Horiuchi's name and address, "in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter." (Horiuchi is an FBI sniper and some of his official actions have drawn controversy, specifically his shooting and killing of Randy Weaver's wife while she held an infant child.) He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that "what goes around, comes around," and he later considered putting aside his plan to target the Murrah Building to target Horiuchi, or a member of his family instead.[25]

McVeigh spent more time on the gun show circuit,[when?] traveling to 40 states and visiting about 80 gun shows. McVeigh found that the further west he went, the more anti-government sentiment he encountered, at least until he got to what he called "The People's Socialist Republic of California."[26] McVeigh sold survival items and copies of The Turner Diaries. One author said:

In the gun show culture, McVeigh found a home. Though he remained skeptical of some of the most extreme ideas being bandied around, he liked talking to people there about the United Nations, the federal government and possible threats to American liberty.[27]
----------------------

I don't think there's a fine line at all. I mean really, your team already won the election.

If you don't like the tea party that's fine, doesn't mean they are domestic terrorists.

You're really making a huge leap, leaving out many other aspects about his personality.

McVeigh among other things was paranoid.

Submitted by KIBU on February 2, 2013 - 3:03pm.

Who said anything about the Tea Party?

I respect the Tea Party because they engaged in our political system. They are great Americans with ideas just as the Republicans and the Democrats. They have ideas that you can reason with.

The Anti-government, anti-American groups and rhetoric is different. These dudes don't want to participate in the rule of law and the political system of this country. They want using guns and explosions to guide this country their way. Their rhetoric are full of hatred toward our government.

Sorry, but I trust the United State of America government than any of these guys who are deluding themselves with their revolutionary wannabe theory.

It is interesting that the information about McVeigh on his rational for pro-gun parallel the current NRA's stand (at least what I see in the last few interviews of the NRA top leaders). I am not sure if NRA understand that they are using the rhetorics of such revolutionaries and patriot as Tim McVeigh.

Submitted by paramount on February 2, 2013 - 5:32pm.

KIBU wrote:

The Anti-government, anti-American groups and rhetoric is different. These dudes don't want to participate in the rule of law and the political system of this country.

Quite the contrary; and while I can't speak to all individuals most live by and just want to see the Constitution restored and enforced.

Submitted by desmond on February 2, 2013 - 7:58pm.

Kibu is looking for someone else to protect her, while law abiding gun owners will protect themselves.

Submitted by CA renter on February 3, 2013 - 2:37am.

KIBU wrote:
The line is pretty fine.

These dudes with anti-government rhetoric everywhere I hear (they are pretty vocal now) and the dude who exploded the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh sound kind of familiar to me. This is from Wikipedia on Timothy McVeigh:
-------------------------------------------
1993 Waco siege and gun shows

In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." He told a student reporter:

The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[24]

For the five months following the Waco Siege, McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed up with Lon Horiuchi's name and address, "in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter." (Horiuchi is an FBI sniper and some of his official actions have drawn controversy, specifically his shooting and killing of Randy Weaver's wife while she held an infant child.) He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that "what goes around, comes around," and he later considered putting aside his plan to target the Murrah Building to target Horiuchi, or a member of his family instead.[25]

McVeigh spent more time on the gun show circuit,[when?] traveling to 40 states and visiting about 80 gun shows. McVeigh found that the further west he went, the more anti-government sentiment he encountered, at least until he got to what he called "The People's Socialist Republic of California."[26] McVeigh sold survival items and copies of The Turner Diaries. One author said:

In the gun show culture, McVeigh found a home. Though he remained skeptical of some of the most extreme ideas being bandied around, he liked talking to people there about the United Nations, the federal government and possible threats to American liberty.[27]
----------------------

So, you belive the government did the right thing by killing the people at Waco, or killing member of the Weaver family? What do you think justifies the government's actions in these two cases?

Some background on the Ruby Ridge incident:

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms first became aware of Weaver in July 1986 when he was introduced to an ATF informant at a meeting of the Aryan Nations. Weaver had been invited by Frank Kumnick, who was the original target of the ATF investigation. It was Weaver's first attendance. Over the next three years, Weaver and the informant met several times.[7] In October 1989, the ATF claimed that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the overall length of the guns shorter than the legal limit set by federal law. By this time, Weaver had had a falling-out with both Kumnick and the Aryan Nations. In November 1989 Weaver accused the ATF informant of being a spy for the police; Weaver later wrote he had been warned by "Rico V."[11] The informant's handler, Herb Byerly, ordered him to have no further contact with Weaver. Eventually, FBI informant Rico Valentino outed the ATF informant to Aryan Nations security.[12]

ATF agent Byerly had come to regard Kumnick as just a "boastful show-off" and Weaver as even less involved. In June 1990, Byerly attempted to use the sawed-off shotgun charge as leverage to get Weaver to act as an informant for his investigation into the Aryan Nations.[10] When Weaver refused to become "a snitch," the ATF filed the gun charges in June 1990, also claiming Weaver was a bank robber with criminal convictions (those claims were false: at that time Weaver had no criminal record and the subsequent Senate investigation found: "Weaver was not a suspect in any bank robberies."[10]) Weaver denied the sawed-off weapons charge, claiming that the informant had purchased two legal shotguns from him and later shortened the guns. A federal grand jury later indicted him in December 1990 for making and possessing, but not for selling, illegal weapons in October 1989.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

------------

Waco:

"Former Davidian Marc Breault claimed that Koresh had "M16 lower receiver parts"[15] (combining M16 trigger components with a modified AR-15 lower receiver possibly constitutes the manufacture of a firearm that would be classified as a machine gun;[26] the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 outlawed civilian ownership of any newly manufactured machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment[27]). According to the Affidavit presented by ATF investigator David Aguilera to U.S. Magistrate Dennis G. Green on February 25, 1993, the Branch Davidian gun business (the "Mag Bag", Route 7, Box 555-B, Waco, Texas, 76705, located on Farm Road number 2491), had purchased many legal guns and gun parts from various legal vendors (such as 45 semi-automatic AR-15 lower receivers from Olympic Arms). Deliveries by UPS for the "Mag Bag" were accepted and paid for at Mount Carmel Center by Woodrow Kendrick, Paul Fatta, David Koresh or Steve Schneider. These purchases were traced by Aguilera through the normal channels used to track legal firearms purchases from legal vendors. None of the weapons and firearms were illegally obtained nor illegally owned by the "Mag Bag"; however, Aguilera affirmed to the judge that in his experience, in the past other purchasers of such legal gun parts had modified them to make illegal firearms. The search warrant was justified not on the basis there was proof that the Davidians had purchased anything illegal, but on the basis that they could be modifying legal arms to illegal arms, and that automatic weapon fire had been reported on the compound.[28] When the reports of automatic fire were first received, Steve Schneider and David Koresh showed[citation needed] the County Sheriff's Department a "Hellfire" device, a quick-firing trigger sold with an ATF letter certifying that the device was not a machine gun.

The affidavit of ATF investigator David Aguilera for the search warrant claimed that there were over 150 weapons and 8,100 rounds of ammunition in the compound. The paperwork on the AR-15 components cited in the affidavit showed they were in fact legal semi-automatics; however, Aguilera told the judge: "I know based on my training and experience that an AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle practically identical to the M-16 rifle. [...] I have been involved in many cases where defendants, following a relatively simple process, convert AR-15 semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic rifles of the nature of the M-16. [...] Often times templates, milling machines, lathes and instruction guides are used by the converter."[29] Aguilera stated in the affidavit and later testified at trial that a neighbor had heard machine-gun fire. However Aguilera failed to tell the magistrate that the same neighbor had previously reported the noise to the local Waco sheriff, who investigated the neighbor's complaint. Paul Fatta, who was also involved in the failed takeover of the group in 1987, told The New York Times that Koresh and he had visited the sheriff after the surveillance had been spotted and claimed that the sheriff's office told them their guns were legal.[30]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

----------------

In both cases, law enforcement used questionable tactics in order to establish that illegal (?) activity had occurred. In neither case did they have the right to kill multiple (innocent?) people.

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