OT: Cloward–Piven Strategy - Obama/Democratic Strategy for Socialist State

User Forum Topic
Submitted by Huckleberry on November 12, 2012 - 3:07pm

Has anyone else herd of this strategy? I just started doing research on it and WOW! Much of it resonates with what I have been seeing economically lately.

What are Piggs perspective on the chances the Dems will achieve a socialist state?

Resources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%...

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/group...

Submitted by spdrun on November 12, 2012 - 3:11pm.

Conspiracy theories as usual. Obama isn't any more of a Socialist than 75% of Americans. Affordable, portable health care, regardless of employment status or company size, is a good thing for *capitalism.*

Submitted by Huckleberry on November 12, 2012 - 3:24pm.

spdrun wrote:
Conspiracy theories as usual. Obama isn't any more of a Socialist than 75% of Americans. Affordable, portable health care, regardless of employment status or company size, is a good thing for *capitalism.*

Have you heard of this strategy, researched it, and have knowledge of it? Why are you so quick to debunk it?

If you understand it's premise and correlate it to current policy you can see many parallels...

Then, project forward if the same policy themes are continued, what we may end up with in 10-15 years...

Submitted by no_such_reality on November 12, 2012 - 3:29pm.

Newsflash, we are a socialist country.

Medicare - socialist program.
Medicaid - socialist program.
Obamacare - socialist program.
Social Security - socialist program.
VA medical coverage - socialist program.
Public Education - socialist program.
50 Years of defense spending - socialist program.

It's not a question of are we socialist or not, it's just a matter of degree.

I'm already paying France level taxes, I want France level safety net!

Submitted by spdrun on November 12, 2012 - 3:39pm.

Actually, offense spending is more like corporatism aka fascism.

Submitted by Huckleberry on November 12, 2012 - 4:08pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
Newsflash, we are a socialist country.

Medicare - socialist program.
Medicaid - socialist program.
Obamacare - socialist program.
Social Security - socialist program.
VA medical coverage - socialist program.
Public Education - socialist program.
50 Years of defense spending - socialist program.

It's not a question of are we socialist or not, it's just a matter of degree.

I'm already paying France level taxes, I want France level safety net!

I agree that we are already well on our way to a full socialist state.

What are Piggs forecasts of what our system will look like in 20 years? Are we talking about wealth confiscation? Or, just wealth erosion through mass inflation? And/Or, Mass taxation from higher income groups to fund all the social programs and MASSIVE gov't? Or...??? What other scenarios am I missing and what will the impact of them be on those of us trying to fund our retirements?!?!

Submitted by spdrun on November 12, 2012 - 4:13pm.

Probably some wealth erosion due to inflation. Then again, there are ways to defend against that, like by buying property where appropriate and at a good cap rate.

As far as outright confiscation, I heard that line in the 90ies under Clinton. Didn't happen then, won't likely happen now.

Submitted by no_such_reality on November 12, 2012 - 4:23pm.

spdrun wrote:
Probably some wealth erosion due to inflation. Then again, there are ways to defend against that, like by buying property where appropriate and at a good cap rate.

As far as outright confiscation, I heard that line in the 90ies under Clinton. Didn't happen then, won't likely happen now.

It'll be wealth transfer via slight of hand.

AKA, Prop 39: $1 billion in "new" tax revenue, $1/2 Billion earmarked for 'green' energy, which is what the hedge fund manager that bankrolled it invests in.

Submitted by SK in CV on November 12, 2012 - 4:37pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
Newsflash, we are a socialist country.

Medicare - socialist program.
Medicaid - socialist program.
Obamacare - socialist program.
Social Security - socialist program.
VA medical coverage - socialist program.
Public Education - socialist program.
50 Years of defense spending - socialist program.

It's not a question of are we socialist or not, it's just a matter of degree.

I'm already paying France level taxes, I want France level safety net!

With the exception of education and some VA medical benefits, none of those have any resemblance to socialism.

Submitted by poorgradstudent on November 12, 2012 - 6:37pm.

The Democratic strategy is that of low taxes for the poor, somewhat higher taxes for the rich (but still among the lowest in the world), and using those taxes to fund education for the underclasses to create a stronger economic base and more educated and globally competitive workforce.

On economic issues the President Obama's policies align most closely with are Ronald Reagan's. Obama really is an economic moderate, as much as far right conservatives like to whine and gnash their teeth. He's not FDR or anything.

Submitted by paulflorez on November 12, 2012 - 6:52pm.

I think people are tired of conservatives crying wolf about our President. He disappoints the far-left and the far-right which makes him a moderate. Since President Obama's re-election every far-right conservative seems to be desperately looking for an echo-chamber.

If you truly believe the President wants a completely socialist state then that would mean a majority of Americans want that as well and if the latter is the case then the intentions of our current President should not be your main concern. Either start having a respectful conversation with people you consider to be liberals or pack your bags.

Submitted by Hobie on November 12, 2012 - 7:25pm.

poorgradstudent wrote:

On economic issues the President Obama's policies align most closely with are Ronald Reagan's. Obama really is an economic moderate,

Please, I expect a little more from you PGS. Reagan and Obama in the same camp...right..

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.