San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

This is definitely a real and profound threat, just like those Iraqi drones that were gonna fly over our cities and spray chemical and biological agents all over us. I recommend that we all become very afraid, wet our pants, and do whatever the TV tells us to do.

Fear - The new American pastime.

CONCHO

:roflmao:

I wonder what happens to oil prices if Iranians manage to send this country into the 1800's.

Also I suspect that, if it happens, US military will fire nukes first and investigate later. Iran will be #1 target on the list.

What happened to Missile Defence (SDI/Starwars)? I think we spent a trillion or so.

http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/html/mdalink....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_Def...

I think that is what this missile shield in Europe is all about. Bush wants to put interceptors there to kill Iraninan missiles before they can get high enough to do EMP damage.

John

Iran is going to join forces with the boggieman. We better start a war with them ASAP.

The post should be titled "Rapture frenzy grips armageddon nuts"

Yes, the US and Israel have every right to bomb any country they like and get away with it. All they have to say is the country in question "had it coming to them". Iran should not protect itself from these unprovoked attacks or try to prove the allegations are bullshit. Instead Iran should gracefully allow it's people to be bombed back to the stone age. After all it's ability to stand up to regional bullies or nazi super-states is not a fundamental right. And any country thinking of selling it's oil in euros and willing to tell the US business interests to fuck off should think carefully about following in Iran's footsteps of national defense and self interest. Chavez, I think you know who I am talking about.

It is interesting that the U.S. who was the first to transfer nuclear technology to the mid-east, and even Highly Enriched Uranium (HEU) to the mid-east is the loudest protester of Iran developing its own nuclear capability.

We gave Israel the bomb and HEU, Pakistan, and India have developed their own nuclear bombs. Where the hell are the UN inspectors when it comes to Israel? Why is a theocracy in Israel any less of a danger to the world than one in Iran.

There are a lot of people here with very curious loyalties.

Seems to me, there are a lot of people here who don't let the wool get pulled over their eyes and are questioning and demanding accountability from their leadership. Being inquisitive is not being disloyal or "unpatriotic" (wanted to clear that up before we go there).

There are a lot of people here with very curious loyalties.

There are a lot of people with very questionable sanity. Remember the last time some country was an imminent threat. Personally, I am still pissed off about being bait and switched by my own country. So if loyalty is to go along with what ever propaganda they are spewing out for their maniacal purposes you can count me out.

Bubba99,

Is this your opinion or can you state your source of information that we (United States) "gave Israel the bomb and HEU".

One of my sources shows otherwise:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200603130011

'It has been known for some time that the French helped build Israel's reactor and reprocessing plant at Dimona, but over the past year our research team at BBC Newsnight has unearthed something no less astonishing and much closer to home - top-secret files which show how Britain helped Israel get the atomic bomb.'

Got to love those French...

'Britain also sold Israel a whole range of other exotic chemicals, including uranium-235, beryllium and lithium-6, which are used in atom bombs and even hydrogen bombs. And in Harold Macmillan's time we supplied the heavy water that allowed Israel to start up its own plutonium production facility at Dimona - heavy water that British intelligence estimated would enable Israel to make "six nuclear weapons a year".'

The other problem ... If it was the US that gave Israel 'the bomb' then it happened on JFK's and LBJ's watch.

'The Kennedy and Johnson administrations fashioned a complex scheme of annual visits to Dimona to ensure that Israel would not develop nuclear weapons. But the Israelis were adept at concealing their activities. By late 1966, Israel had reached the nuclear threshold, although it decided not to conduct an atomic test'

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-...

'French experts secretly built the Israeli reactor underground at Dimona, in the Negev desert of southern Israel near Beersheba.'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

'There was another problem: the Americans. There was no US-Israeli alliance in those days and Washington was determined to prevent nuclear weapons proliferation. If Britain told the Americans about the Israeli deal they would stop it. Donald Cape decided on discretion: "I would rather not tell the Americans." When Newsnight told Robert McNamara - John F Kennedy's defence secretary - about this he was amazed. "The fact Israel was trying to develop a nuclear bomb should not have come as a surprise, but that Britain should have supplied it with heavy water was indeed a surprise to me," he said.'

Israel working with the French conducted nuclear tests together:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-...

'One common discussion in the literature concerns testing of Israeli nuclear devices. In the early phases, the amount of collaboration between the French and Israeli nuclear weapons design programs made testing unnecessary. In addition, although their main efforts were with plutonium, the Israelis may have amassed enough uranium for gun-assembled type bombs which, like the Hiroshima bomb, require no testing. One expert postulated, based on unnamed sources, that the French nuclear test in 1960 made two nuclear powers not one—such was the depth of collaboration.25 There were several Israeli observers at the French nuclear tests and the Israelis had “unrestricted access to French nuclear test explosion data.”26 Israel also supplied essential technology and hardware.27 The French reportedly shipped reprocessed plutonium back to Israel as part of their repayment for Israeli scientific help.'

Because of the Arms Race and Cold War with USSR, US did not want any proliferation of Nuclear Weapons for any other countries. Did you ever learn about the 'Cuba Missile Crisis'?

Please provide me with your sources...

Just to let everyone know, I try to be neutral about issues with Israel. There were/are good and bad US policies in regards to Israel.

My guess is the French were involved with Pakistan and India getting the 'Bomb'. I'll will research that next...

Lucky In OC

Crazy idea: I believe a number of suicidal terrorists will take over aircraft and ram them into major American buildings and kill thousands. Oh, wait, that could never happen--that's just fear getting to me, a symptom of neo-con paranoia!

I wonder how much credibility and strength the American left would have right now if those few terrorists had pulled off crashing their plane into the Capitol. Or, as they had discussed, decided to crash those planes into nuclear power plants. Really, we may have got lucky . . . it could have been much worse.

Now, and I'm sorry to expose many on this board to reality, the Iranian leadership is gearing up for final conflict with the West (as they have told us and which is called out in their religion), including destroying the Great Satan.

Is there any doubt this is why they are developing a nuclear program?

Lucky In OC,

Facts don't work too well with the "blame America first crowd."

John

Many on the loony left still believe that all these big bad muslims need is a hug. Seriously. Maybe some group therapy for a while to discuss their childhood issues.

Secular progressives just don't get religious zealotry and don't actually believe it is real. Which is odd considering their near religious embrace of things like environmentalism.

Hitler clearly laid out his plans as early as the 1920s in his book "Mein Kampf". Unfortunately, and with few exceptions, no one in power during his rise to power in the 1930s took him seriously.

One of the exceptions, Winston Churchill, was roundly condemned for his stance on Hitler and Germany, and was thought to be agitating for another war. Sadly, he was proved right in his statements about Hitler and Germany's plans.

Iran has been very clear in their desire to eliminate both Israel and the US. Much like the British, Americans and French during the 1930s, they are being ignored or the possible threat is being downplayed.

If Iran develops nuke capability, all they need to do following is secure a SRBM (short-range ballistic missile) or MRBM (medium-range ballistic missile) system for delivery (and the Russians have buttloads of these available for hard currency sale) and they could hit Tel Aviv comfortably. Anyone here think they wouldn't, if they could?

Anyone here think they wouldn't, if they could?

Okay, let's do the wargame scenario.

1) Iran launches a nuclear missile strike on Israel.

2) Israel detects the strike with their early warning system and activates the Samson Option against Iran using their entire arsenal of 400 nuclear warheads, launched from F15-I aircraft, Reshef missile boats, and Dolphin submarines.

3) The Iranian missiles hit their targets and Israel is destroyed. 6M jews and 1M Israeli arabs, plus 4M arabs in the occupied territories are killed.

4) The Israeli missiles hit their targets and Iran is destroyed. 70M Iranians are killed.

Wow, that was a short wargame. In addition to destroying Israel, Iran killed 5M arabs and became the biggest killer of arabs in history just before their country ceased to exist.

Of course all muslims are crazed suicidal jihadists and are too stupid to actually run a wargame scenario like this. So I guess we need to bomb them first and kill them all.

I call them regressives since their socialism has never worked in any other country.

A real progressive to me would be someone who wanted to get rid of all government that wasn't "neccessary". THAT has never been tried before and that would truly be progressive.

John

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." The Shrub

I can't believe people are listening to this terrorism (Terrorism is "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism)
spewed from the neo-con war machine. They already conned the American people this way once, and we all know how that turned out. The reason for pre-emptive strike went from a hunt for WMDs to liberation by occupation. Isn’t that called Imperialism?

Dup - Deleted

Anyone here think they wouldn't, if they could?

Iran is going to attack Israel with nuclear weapons (it doesn't have) which would kill the millions of Muslims that live there, along with various holy sites dear to Muslims around the world. These two reasons are why Muslims are angry about Israel in the first place, and they'd just destroy them? This attack would also assure the destruction of their own country as well, if not by Israel than by the US. Iran is a dangerous country that we shouldn't turn our back on, but this seems like a low probability and hardly justification for an invasion.

BTW, our previous invasion of their neighbor Iraq has only served to bolster Iran's power and influence in the region. Heckuva Job!

French were involved with Pakistan and India getting the 'Bomb'

Pakistan's designs were stolen by AQ Khan from a Dutch lab.

http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/in...

India's program was bootstrapped by Eisenhower's "Atoms for Peace program"

http://centerforinvestigativereporting.o...

There was help from Canada too http://www.igloo.org/disarmingconflict/c...

Absolutely nothing French anywhere.

Iran has been very clear in their desire to eliminate both Israel and the US.

That is trumped up neo-con bullshit. As a matter of fact, Kucinich has been trying to get the "Israel wiped from the face of the earth" comment stricken from the congressional record, because it was a mistranslation.

Seymore Hersh has been reporting that Cheney has been trying to set up a Gulf of Tonkin incident.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...

We are trying to instigate them. Do we really think this is a good idea?

Like it or not Iran is going Nuclear and with itchy finger Cheney and Israel, who can blame them. They want nukes for the same reason all other countries do. So nobody fucks with them. And we don't like that, because we may need to fuck with them for what Zbigniew Rybczyński calls the "Grand Chess Match". The remaining energy reserves are in the ME and the Caspian Basin. We ain't leaving for a long long time, so all you hawks out there need not worry about Obama pulling out, his masters won't allow it. Just look at who is foreign policy advisor and his philosophy on the ME.

Iran already has 1300 Russia's helping with their reactor and they signed a big natural gas deal with China.

Besides starting WWIII, this would also take 25% of the oil off the market. Does anybody have an idea of what that would do? The price of oil would be unlimited, markets would crash and the SPR would empty very quickly. So say good bye to 401ks and pensions and stock up on canned goods because food would run out real quick when diesel does.

You wanna stop all the anti-american rhetoric and terrorism in the ME, stop supporting Israel and get out of the middle east. Done deal.

And stop with the little kid fairy tail nonsense of democracy in the ME. They would vote us outta there in a second and we know it. That is the last thing we want. We want military states that we control the oil and we DO NOT want them sucking up out oil and driving up the price.

We have reached Orwell's "perpetual war" with propaganda included.

War is peace-Ignorance is strength

Speaking of Nazis I always found Prescott Bushes helping finance then pretty interesting. Maybe if papa Bush did not help finance them the would not have rose to power.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep...

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

Or maybe his plan for military coup to take over the US in 1934 which is part congressional record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was a political conspiracy in 1933 wherein wealthy businessmen and corporations plotted a coup d’état to overthrow U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 1934, the Business Plot was publicly revealed by retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testifying to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional Committee. [1] In his testimony, Butler claimed that a group of men had approached him as part of a plot to overthrow Roosevelt in a military coup. One of the alleged plotters, Gerald MacGuire, vehemently denied any such plot. In their final report, the Congressional committee supported Butler's allegations of the existence of the plot,[2]

I happen to agree with General Smedley Butler, whom they approached for the Fascist Coup. who said

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."[

War is a Racket.... And they use these BS slogans like "the hate us for our freedoms" to rile up the masses. At the same time, propping up dictators and funding terrorists when it is in our interest and turning around and condemning them when it is not. And none of this is to protect us, it's to advance business interests.

This is quite possibly the most-poorly reasoned post I've ever read on Piggington. Getting one quote "edited" and quoting S. Hersh (of all people!) therfore equals "neo-con" b.s.? (Congratulations on being the king or queen of the non-sequitur today.)

If you ever wanted to leave your nice little fun world, try actually reading English translations of Arab and Iranian media. For example, you might learn how the Arabs and Persians ACTUALLY view the US at MEMRI.org, a non-partisan, independent organization that translate Arab and Farsi writings into English.

Sorry to pop your warm littel bubble, but Jihadist religious leaders (including those in Iran)have already said they are willing to accept the deaths of scores of millions of their own people in nuclear exchanges if it meant ending the US and Israel. (Before that happens, however, I think they'll more likely triumph in conquering Eurabia, I mean Europe.)

Really, please, wake up. Stop quoting Hersh, Slate, and NPR, and actually read what they say. Truth, though frightening, is also liberating.

Iran is not an immediate threat. The world is full of enemies. Some of them have nukes. Iran already has 10-12 nukes from Russia. They've had them for years now. The bulk of this discussion is ranting ideological bullshit. If you think we should panic, you're a big pussy.

Democrats are not your enemy.

None of this has any real bearing on the effectiveness of our foreign policy or the strategic defense of our country. Here are some substantive questions:

How should we deal with Islamic extremism, surrogate armies and two-faced nation-states such as Saudi Arabia? How would you assess our strategic position (overextended in Iraq, focus more on Al Qaeda), our strengths and weaknesses (energy supplies), the effectiveness of our current tactics (improving)? If the hardline Iranian regime is a foe, how do we deal with and neutralize them? Saber-rattling strengthens the hardline regime. Why would we do this? Piss your pants over Iran for christ's sake. Give me a fucking break.

How do we best harness the capacity of this country to deal with Iran, Al Qaeda and other ongoing threats from abroad? By attacking democrats and liberals, demonizing your fellow Americans? Divide and conquer for political gain? It really needs to stop.

[quote=gandalf]Iran is not an immediate threat. The world is full of enemies. Some of them have nukes. Iran already has 10-12 nukes from Russia. They've had them for years now. The bulk of this discussion is ranting ideological bullshit. If you think we should panic, you're a big pussy.

Yup, you're right. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Don't be afraid, but be angry at out lying, corrupt government. Iran is no threat.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/1...

U.S. military officials charged on Sunday that the highest levels of the Iranian leadership ordered Shiite militants in Iraq to be armed with sophisticated armor-piercing roadside bombs that have killed more than 170 American forces.

The military command in Baghdad denied, however, that any newly-smuggled Iranian weapons were behind the five U.S. military helicopter crashes since Jan. 20 — four that were shot out of the sky by insurgent gunfire.

A fifth chopper crash has tentatively been blamed on mechanical failure. In the same period, two private security company helicopters also have crashed but the cause was unclear.

The deadly and highly sophisticated weapons the U.S. military said were coming into Iraq from Iran are known as "explosively formed penetrators," or EFPs.

U.S. intelligence says the weapons are going to Shiite militias that include rogue elements of Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi army militia and a breakaway faction of the Badr Corps, the armed wing of a powerful Shiite party, reports CBS News chief foreign correspondent Lara Logan.

The Iraqi government not only knows but has asked the Iranian government to stop.

. . . . Iraq also didn't have any WMD (material) and wasn't a threat, right . . . FYI:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080707/wl_...

WASHINGTON (AFP) - At Iraq's request, the US military recently transferred hundreds of metric tons of yellowcake uranium from Iraq to Canada in a secret, weeks-long operation, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

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The 550 metric tons of uranium, which was sold to a Canadian company, was moved by truck convoy to Baghdad's "Green Zone," then flown by military aircraft to a third country where it was put on a ship for Canada, said Bryan Whitman, the spokesman.

"The operation was completed over the weekend, on Saturday," Whitman said.

The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Yellowcake is a form of processed uranium ore that can be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors, or if further enriched as fuel for nuclear weapons.

. . . . Iraq also didn't have any WMD (material) and wasn't a threat, right . . . FYI:

Wow, you're right! They had uranium yellowcake! This article scared me so much I just wet my pants! HOLY CRAP we really did need to invade! But I found something else much scarier -- yellowcake is produced by all countries in which uranium is mined! And look at some of these countries! Kazakhstan, Niger, Namibia, Uzbekistan, and Brazil? They've all got yellowcake so they're all threats too -- everyone has heard about the threat of the Namibian nuclear bomb program. All they have to do is to use one of these simple techniques which requires only many billions of dollars and man-years of effort to implement so we'd better invade because THEY'VE GOT YELLOWCAKE! They're gonna make us eat their YELLOW CAKES! We'd probably get really sick. I'm gonna go turn on my TV and wait for instructions on what to do about this VERY DANGEROUS situation!!!