Obama re-elected to grow our national pie, not just re-divide it

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Submitted by ctr70 on January 6, 2013 - 4:11pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/opinio...

I thought this Op-Ed piece in today's New York Times from Thomas Friedman was very good. And this is from a very liberal newspaper and a Op-Ed columnist that leans to left. The article admits we need major entitlement cuts & radical cost savings approaches to heath care. Two areas Obama hasn't had to guts to tackle & ridiculed Romney/Ryan for their ideas.

One excerpt below:

"Obama has spent a lot of time lately bashing the rich to pay their “fair share.” You know what? There are definitely some Wall Street bankers and C.E.O.’s who deserve that bashing. But there are many successful Americans who got their wealth the old-fashioned way — by risk-taking, going into debt to start a business or pursue a dream. It’s time for the president to do some risk-taking — to stop just hammering the wealthy, which is so easy, and to start selling the country on a strategy to multiply them. We need to tax more millionaires, but we also need more millionaires and middle classes to tax. The president was elected to grow our national pie, not just re-divide it."

Submitted by cvmom on January 9, 2013 - 2:17pm.

Nice to see some middle-of-the-road sensible thinking instead of the usual hyper-partisanism (on both sides of the aisle)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 10, 2013 - 7:28am.

You can't grow a pie. You bake a pie. You grow pot or other produce.

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 10:25am.

True... I would say we are pretty much baked.

Submitted by flu on January 10, 2013 - 10:36am.

We outsourced the baking of the pie, but bought it on credit with money from a loan that has as a collateral another loan.

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 11:22am.

Well then lets raise taxes so we can bake a bigger pie!

Submitted by flu on January 10, 2013 - 11:42am.

SD Realtor wrote:
Well then lets raise taxes so we can bake a bigger pie!

Absolutely! And for every 1 cent we raise in taxes from.... (well, doesn't matter who(m)), we can buy a $100 worth of extra pie!!!

Submitted by AN on January 10, 2013 - 11:45am.

flu wrote:
SD Realtor wrote:
Well then lets raise taxes so we can bake a bigger pie!

Absolutely! And for every 1 cent we raise in taxes from.... (well, doesn't matter who(m)), we can buy a $100 worth of extra pie!!!


As long as it's not me, then lets raise taxes on everyone else :-D

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 11:49am.

Oh and finally let's not pass any budget for the cost of that pie. We haven't done that since 2009 anyways.... so ya know.

Submitted by flu on January 10, 2013 - 11:58am.

No no... We have a balanced budget. It's gonna do massive spending cuts..We'll just putting the details in a tin can and kick it around for a few years....If we kick the can far enough along, no one is ever gonna be able to read what was in the document...

Goooooooooallll...

Let's all just sign the damn bill...so we can all go back to more important things...Like our vacation....(taxpayer paid, of course)...

Submitted by AN on January 10, 2013 - 12:06pm.

budget schmudget... we'll just print a few trillion dollar coin... then voila budget problem fixed.

Submitted by flu on January 10, 2013 - 12:12pm.

AN wrote:
budget schmudget... we'll just print a few trillion dollar coin... then voila budget problem fixed.

But we don't have much manufacturing here left. And even if we do, the unions probably would want a cut of that trillion dollar coin....And I'm not sure that manufacturing in the U.S. can really achieve the time to market we need... In our ever-ending pursuit of increasing credit, we need on demand logistics and manufacturing so that we can quickly change manufacturing the 1 trillion dollar coins to 10 trillion dollar coins overnight or more....

Hey, wait... Let's call up Foxconn.. If it's good enough for Apple. It's good enough for the Federal Reserve....

Submitted by SK in CV on January 10, 2013 - 12:38pm.

AN wrote:
budget schmudget... we'll just print a few trillion dollar coin... then voila budget problem fixed.

That's quite the straw man. Nobody has proposed that a trillion dollar coin will fix anything. It's a short term solution to a purely political obstacle.

Submitted by AN on January 10, 2013 - 12:49pm.

SK in CV wrote:
AN wrote:
budget schmudget... we'll just print a few trillion dollar coin... then voila budget problem fixed.

That's quite the straw man. Nobody has proposed that a trillion dollar coin will fix anything. It's a short term solution to a purely political obstacle.


I guess jests doesn't go over well over the internet. It wasn't mean to be a real argument.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 10, 2013 - 1:00pm.

AN wrote:
SK in CV wrote:
AN wrote:
budget schmudget... we'll just print a few trillion dollar coin... then voila budget problem fixed.

That's quite the straw man. Nobody has proposed that a trillion dollar coin will fix anything. It's a short term solution to a purely political obstacle.


I guess jests doesn't go over well over the internet. It wasn't mean to be a real argument.

I don't want to go tooo deeply into the trillion dollar coin debate, but really I don't think someone like say china would stop taking our dollars over this, (really I honestly think "china" is printing a heck of a lot of money that's not being advertised).

So you really think we will ever be able to pay the national debt without say 7-8% inflation?

Submitted by SK in CV on January 10, 2013 - 1:02pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:

So you really think we will ever be able to pay the national debt without say 7-8% inflation?

Pay off the debt or maintain and service it? A little tweaking of both sides of the budget and 3 or 4% GDP growth would provide enough to balance the budget. A few years of 5% growth and a little more tweaking, particularly on the revenue side, could put a dent in the debt.

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 1:03pm.

The debt?

Let's try getting the senate to pass a budget for first.

Then maybe just maybe you can start talking about a year without a trillion dollar deficit.

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 1:04pm.

Yes SK we have heard the little tweaking and drops argument you have proposed before.

Seems like the government has been embracing that.

Submitted by SK in CV on January 10, 2013 - 1:13pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
Yes SK we have heard the little tweaking and drops argument you have proposed before.

Seems like the government has been embracing that.

Much more important than those little tweakings and drops is the economy as a whole. Two percent annual growth won't do it. I think Europe has provided pretty good evidence that austerity isn't a solution. We haven't really embraced a solution here either, we've just less wholeheartedly embraced the same failed path as Europe.

Submitted by flu on January 10, 2013 - 1:14pm.

Drill, baby, drill??? :)

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 1:30pm.

Of course it is the economy.

Thus the senate is then justified in not passing a budget since 2009, and the govt in general is continuing to spend a trillion more then it takes in because it will all take care of itself when the economy heals.

In the meantime it is okay to spend more and tax more.

Because that is (speculation about the economy aside) exactly what we are doing.

Submitted by SK in CV on January 10, 2013 - 1:45pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
Of course it is the economy.

Thus the senate is then justified in not passing a budget since 2009, and the govt in general is continuing to spend a trillion more then it takes in because it will all take care of itself when the economy heals.

In the meantime it is okay to spend more and tax more.

Because that is (speculation about the economy aside) exactly what we are doing.

Except we haven't taxed more. And we haven't spent much more. Taxes have gone down for almost everyone over the last 4 years. And spending is growing at the smallest rate in decades, and most of that increase has been purely a function of the economy and demographics.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 10, 2013 - 2:08pm.

You need dough to bake a pie.

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 2:17pm.

Well SK you paint a portrait that indeed everything is okay and perfectly acceptable. I guess we simply agree to disagree.

Submitted by enron_by_the_sea on January 10, 2013 - 2:37pm.

I can also view this as - The house should pass a budget that is acceptable to the senate and the president.

Why should 1/3rd of the govt. (or more likely 1/3*1/2 =1/6th) behave like it is 3/3 of the govt.?

Submitted by SK in CV on January 10, 2013 - 2:55pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
Well SK you paint a portrait that indeed everything is okay and perfectly acceptable. I guess we simply agree to disagree.

No, I haven't said that at all. The economy is still limping along. More than 12 million people who want jobs don't have them. I don't think there's any part of that which is acceptable.

Submitted by SD Realtor on January 10, 2013 - 2:59pm.

I can also view it as the senate has not passed any budget since 2009. The house may have passed a budget that is unacceptable to the president and senate but it did pass a budget.

Submitted by AN on January 10, 2013 - 3:06pm.

The other 2/3 have no room to complain about the bad budget from the other 1/3 if they haven't passed one of their own. That's the whole point of negotiation right? Put your budget on the table and see where they can come together?

Submitted by livinincali on January 10, 2013 - 3:16pm.

SK in CV wrote:

Except we haven't taxed more. And we haven't spent much more. Taxes have gone down for almost everyone over the last 4 years. And spending is growing at the smallest rate in decades, and most of that increase has been purely a function of the economy and demographics.

A little perspective seems to be in order. Pick your time frame carefully to make your point.

Notice how revenues have stagnated over the past 10 years yet spending has increased. Revenues are based on number of people working, their nominal wage gains and the tax rate. Everybody agrees that wages have stagnated. Look at a chart of number of people working and that hasn't gone up much, and the tax rate has basically remained the same or gone down.

Submitted by SK in CV on January 10, 2013 - 3:48pm.

livinincali wrote:
SK in CV wrote:

Except we haven't taxed more. And we haven't spent much more. Taxes have gone down for almost everyone over the last 4 years. And spending is growing at the smallest rate in decades, and most of that increase has been purely a function of the economy and demographics.

Notice how revenues have stagnated over the past 10 years yet spending has increased. Revenues are based on number of people working, their nominal wage gains and the tax rate. Everybody agrees that wages have stagnated. Look at a chart of number of people working and that hasn't gone up much, and the tax rate has basically remained the same or gone down.

If you go back another couple years, revenue decreased over the last 12 years. If revenue had simply kept up with inflation since 2000, the current budget would be balanced. Revenues are not solely based on the number of people working. It's also based on the effective tax rates on all income.

Again, much of the increase in entitlement spending is purely demographics, and more recently, a function of the economy, not statutory increases in entitelments. Almost 1/3 of the increase in entitelment costs are SS old age benefits, yet SS as a whole still does not materially contribute to the deficit. And net OASI taxes collected (including SE tax) increased by more than 1/3. (SS benefits paid are roughly equal to additions to the SS trust fund.)

Submitted by enron_by_the_sea on January 10, 2013 - 4:03pm.

AN wrote:
The other 2/3 have no room to complain about the bad budget from the other 1/3 if they haven't passed one of their own. That's the whole point of negotiation right? Put your budget on the table and see where they can come together?

* Obama can't "pass" budget but do not complain that he did not propose one .

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/13/news/eco...

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