San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

With all that renovation, that house still doesn't grab me. How much could they possibly get for rent? $2500? That puts them $1000 underwater on their current mortgage, and something tells me their payments are gonna ratchet up...

I sure wouldn't want to have spent $92K in hard cash AND eight months of hard labor to make a renter happy.

Its a nice enough place, in a nice enough area.

But $900K for it? I think...not

The house does grab me as Westchester is always on my radar, and it's nicely remodeled. But... if and when there's a correction, I would imagine that Westchester will be hard-hit (part of the reason that it's on my radar) because it's near LAX, and it's in L.A. Unified school district. So, these sellers are probably in for a rude awakening -- especially when there are other homes in the area that are currently going for so much less (and dropping) with more square footage (even though not as updated)... just the take of this total novice...

Good take avidsaver. You're right about the proximity to LAX. I lived in that area after college because I was able to find cheap rent, it was close to the South Bay where I had family, and not too far from the Westside, where I worked. That said, it's not where I would want to buy a $900k 3br house. Not with the constant sight and sound of airplanes overhead.

avidsaver, lamoneyguy, what do you think of the Marina Del Rey, Playa Del Rey areas? I like the area but I've never lived there. I may consider relocating to that area when the price is right. What do you think of the noise situation near LAX?

I have never lived in Playa Del Rey, but it is an area that has grown tremendously. It is middle-upper income/price. Marina is pretty expensive, but less so once you get inland a bit. On the actual marina you will not find any SFRs, only condos and apartments. My impression of MDR has always been older folks, some artist types with money. MDR would not have a noise problem. I can't speak to PDR.

Marina is almost exclusivley condos/apt, most having been built within the last 10 years or so. There's some very nice townhouses on Admiralty Way, if THs are your cup of tea.
The further inland you go, the more SFRs you get, but due to the 90 and the 405 crossing perpendicularly just above Linclon, you get a lot of freeway noise in the back streets. These are your standard 1200 sf 2b/2bs with sub-5000 lots, which at the moment are around 800K.The good new is that LAX noise is less of a problem than the freeway noise, and a good selection of stores in the mall on Mindinao/Glencoe.

Playa is nice - on the beaches its all condos/apts, but go inland, up on the bluffs near Loyola Marymount University, and there are some incredible (and incredibly priced) Mansions overlooking whats left of the Ballona Wetlands. A big new condo complex was bult last year right by Electronic Arts on Lincoln. The wetlands themselves are dimishing fast, and mainly just driven through at speed by people on their way to somewhere else. Beaches are OK, but get crowded in summer. If you're picky about polloution, watch out for the chemical plant at the end of Imperial Ave, a couple of miles west of Playa proper.
A fun, if rather strange, beach experience is to sunbathe under the end of the LAX runway and watch the jumbos clear the end. If you lie in the right place, you can watch (and hear) them thundering away, not 100 ft over your head before they climb and disperse to all points of the compass.

Bad news - traffic can be a bitch. On the beachfront is a road that goes down to the south beach towns (Redondo, Manhatten, etc...) and further inland is Lincoln, which gets used as an alternative to the 405 and as direct route to LAX, so you're pretty much caught between a rock and a hard place, as there's very few times of the day when these two roads aren't stop-start traffic.

Noise polloution from LAX varies - depending on the time of day and which way the wind is blowing. Nighttime flights by law have to embark and climb over the sea, so once they're high enough the noise isn't so bad.
There are no residential buildings at the end of the runway (though PdR village is only 1 mile down the road), so you won't be woken up by your ornamants falling off the shelves, but you will live with a dull constant roar, which you may or may not be able to tune out..

Both places are a little too congested, crowded and expensive for my liking, but if you work on the Westside then they are a good alternative to unafordable Santa Monica and Apartment Hell West L.A.

My grandmother once owned a house located directly under the takeoff pattern for LAX and overlooking the beach areas. Spectacular view but the noise from those jets was overwhelming. It would rattle the house and you couldn't hold a converstation until it passed over. Those neighborhoods all got condemned in the early 1970s and now they're nothing but sand, but there were some nice homes up there at one time.

PerryChase - both Marina Del Rey and Playa Del Rey can be a little pricey, but both are nice. In Playa Del Rey near Loyola Marymount University and near the bluffs that speedingpullet referred to, there are very nice homes. Westchester borders Playa Del Rey (to the East), and has some nice pockets and less nice pockets. The noise from the planes (now this is from someone who grew up here) is bad when you're directly in the flight path, but not so bad when you're removed.

As an example, I live in El Segundo, about five blocks south of LAX, and the noise is not NEARLY as bad as when I lived in Inglewood (about 6 miles east of LAX but directly in the flight path). My sister lives about three blocks south of me, and I rarely notice the noise there. But you weren't asking about El Segundo (which by the way is where the plant is). My brother lives in Westchester, and they are pretty close to LAX, but I don't think that they have any ridiculous plane noise either.

You wouldn't have to deal with airplane noise at all in Marina Del Rey, but as far as I've seen, the SFRs aren't that great. I would probably consider Santa Monica (where I work) any day before Marina Del Rey, but I'd consider Playa Del Rey before both MDR and SM.

I'd agree that the traffic is nothing to be happy about. I am one of the people driving through the wetlands a couple of times a week to get to work. The thing about Playa Del Rey is that there isn't the most convenient way to get in and out.

Hope that made sense with all the ramblings.

Oh yeah -- the traffic of the airport does vary depending on the day and time. The rule about taking off and landing over the ocean at night is not always followed though.

Perry,
I lived in Playa for 8 years. I lived right down on the sand in the area called The Jungle. It's the last affordable beach front property. The homes are all duplexes, so you can live in 1 and rent out the other. It is a great area to live in because of the community - everyone knows each other, and the weekends are about playing volleyball down at the beach. I think it is a great place for kids too.
In my opinion, Manhattan Beach is too homogenous, and Marina Del Rey is too cold (it has a feeling of old, tired, something’s-not-quite-right about it).
Check out Trolley Way, and see how much the homes are selling for.
If you work on the Westside, you can take surface streets to work. Plus, it's easy to get to Hollywood up the 91 and over to La Cienaga.
The only downside is a little riff-raff on summer weekends, but I alwas quite like that. It's not for everyone though.

lindismith said:
"Marina Del Rey is too cold (it has a feeling of old, tired, something’s-not-quite-right about it)."

I couldn't put it better myself. Despite having a few friends who lived there, I never took to MdR - there's a sort of lost, haunted quality to it. I quite like Playa, but can't afford it, and don't want to live in a condo or a duplex.

Interestingly, I've never had any desire to live in Marina Del Rey either. It seems that there used to be much more to do there in the '80s (at least in my limited POV of those days), but not really now. But I don't really know anyone who has lived or currently lives there.

I've actually been more of an "urban" type than a South Bay dweller with most of my adult life having been spent in L.A. proper (9 years) and West Hollywood (6 years). But parenthood changes perspective, and I'm all about a good school district now (if I can afford it).

Thanks for the comments on MDR and PDR.

I agree about the not-quite-right, old, haunted feeling of MDR. That's because many of the buildings have that 1970s feel to them. But I see that it's changing.

If I relocate to LA, I'll try my best to stay on the Westside. I need to go up there more frequently and look around. My preference would be for a SFR. For some reason, I'd much rather live in a concrete high-rise than in a low-rise condo complex built out of wood. I've been to some wood condo complexes near the ocean and there's a musty, damp, termite infested smell to them (in San Diego and in LA).

I was curious about applying for a job up there, but decided against it. The position was near the NBC Universal building, just north of Hollywood (I guess), I am not sure what area that is called. It seemed like parlaying my skills to enter into the Entertainment industry wouldn't be a bad idea so it still bugs me a bit.

In any case having a couple of kids who like to go outside and throw a ball around, it seemed like a rough area to try and move to. I hadn't considered these South Bay areas mentioned. I tend to prefer stale white dominated areas for school district purposes. Yes I know it's boring, but it seems to do us well.

Sounds like from here there are some areas. It looks like when you get east of Hollywood, the demographics really change. I have mixed feelings about hispanic dominated areas. If you cruise around Bonita you see people out jogging, park activities, basically great neighborhood activities. However the whole gang thing up there makes me want to avoid these areas so I was looking at rentals around burbank and didn't see a whole lot that makes me want to leave San Diego.

Cardiff,
You may receive some criticism for your aversion to majority hispanic neighborhoods. Everyone has their preferences, and that's why neighborhoods take on a personality. I'm sure many Hispanics are more comfortable in neighborhoods with a large population of other Hispanics.

Given that you are interested in "stale white" you should probably look at the San Fernando Valley. Encino, Tarzana, Woodland Hills, Sherman Oaks, parts of Northridge. Or, further up into Ventura County you will find areas that are mostly White and Asian.

Well the point is I don't know LA enough to know what the upper middle class hispanic areas are. We always fit in well because my wife was raised in Honduras, but at the same time I don't want my kids to be where the gangsta's hang out.

My wife actually goes and helps the families at school events (open houses) who don't speak any English to facilitate questions to teachers, so it isn't like we are a complete cocoon. At the same time I think as long as I make a decent check avoiding bad neighborhoods is the right decision.

I have been in San Diego for a little over a year, though I was on travel for 6 months before totally relocating here so I truly do not know LA that well, and am curious.

So I'll rephrase this to ask what are the upper middle class, safe, family oriented towns, with great schools (regardless of demographics) around Hollywood?

There's nothing wrong with cardiff wanting to live with his demographic peers. That doesn't make him racist. You could call everyone racist; after all, isn't Chinatown supposed to be for the Chinese? They wouldn't want a white boy from England in the Hispanic neighborhood, would they? I would feel like a total outcast in a Hispanic neighborhood. So Cardiff, you don't need to defend yourself. Personally, I seem to have more hispanic and oriental friends than white friends, so like Cardiff, I am more comfortable around people with similar education and lifestyle regardless of race.

CardiffBaseball - you won't get any criticism from me on where you want to live!
Despite there being fairly clear-cut areas for Latino/non-Latinos, lots of people of all races and ethinicites live in all areas. As your search seems to be based on living space and non-LAUSD cachment areas, then you might consider some of the following. Unfortunately, as I don't have kids, I don't really keep track of the school districts, but ZipRealty will be able to show you the cachement areas.

I'm assuming you're thinking of taking a job near the studios in Burbank/Universal Studios, so the nearer the better.
The 101 is bascially a parking lot at rush hour, so I'd advise finding a place south of the 101 with decent access to the US/Bbk area. Ventura Blvd or Moorpark are often used as a better east/west road, but as they are surface street, it can be time consuming.

I'll take Universal City as ground-zero, so to speak.
Both the Burbank and Universal City areas are on the northern slopes of the Holywood Hills/southernmost part of the San Fernando Valley, so if you want a view ..look southeast, east, south and southwest of Universal City. If you want a flat yard and don't mind living in SFV...then look northeast, north, northwest and west of UC.

Bear in mind that the San Fernando Valley can be as hot as hades in the summer, especially the further west you go, but if you don't mind a 'desert' heat and have good A/C then its a nice, and cheaper alternative to living on the Westside - south of the Hollywood Hills.
Westside properties have a huge 'sunshine tax' premium (as does most of L.A at the moment), and people still look down on the SFV, but if you have a family that needs some room, then its definately worth looking at.

I'd definately avoid Hollywood proper altogether - its crowded and pretty sleazy. West Hollywood has some sweet little houses, emphasis on the little - but a word of warning, your neighbours have a much better chance of being gay in here, as this is a predominantly gay/lesbian area.

The hills above Sunset Blvd have some nice houses but being in the hills means that yards are hard to some by, and the prices are astronomical at present, for quite modest houses. Look for Cahuenga Pass, Mount Olympus, Hollywood Hills, Whitley Heights and Los Feliz for decent - if sometimes extremely expensive - places directly south of Universal City.

East of UC is Burbank which is quite a nice, safe area, and close by. It also has one of the 3 IKEAs in L.A, which is a plus in my book ;-) Lots of studio folk live there and the area isn't as pricey as south of the hills. IIRC its also not in the LAUSD cachement area (being an incorportated city), but you'd need to check that. East of Burbank, I dont really know the areas, but i'm sure someone on Piggintons can advise you.

North and West of Universal City are Toluca Lake, North Hollywood, Valley Glen, Valley Village and Studio City. These areas are mostly north of Ventura Blvd, which means that they are less 'desirable' - South of Ventura nomally means more toney and more expensive. They're mainly in the flat land of south San Fernando Valley, but these areas all have SFRs with decent yards. southern Studio City is actually up in the Hollywood Hills, so look for bigger prices and smaller yards.

I'd hazard a reccommendation at this point and say that you might like North Hollywood. It has a decent mix of Latino/non-Latino, and is cheaper than many other areas. Its quite a young and upcoming area, but there are some dodgy part of it, so research it well. Valley Glen and Valley Village are pretty much parts of the North Hollywood area.

Further West and South are Beverly Hills, Sherman Oaks and Encino and Van Nuys.
Van Nuys - where I am - is a lower middle class area, with a mix of Latino and non-Latino. The areas around Van Nuys Airport are nice, but very hot in summer. Prices are coming down, and 2b/2b SFRs with a decent (6000+ sqft) lot are anything from 500 - 700K.
Encino and Sherman Oaks are your typical 'stale white' areas. North of Ventura Blvd is cheaper - and flatter - and south of Ventura more expensive.
Everyone has heard of "Beverly Hills 90210", so expect to pay for it!
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Anyway, I hope I haven't scared you off with too much information!

ZipRealty has searches for all these areas, so make up your own mind. And please feel free to pick my brains on any area you're particularly interested in and I'll do my best to help you out.

That was an excellent writeup speeding bullet. I am still up in the air about applying for the position. I previously looked at one in Monrovia, and decided against it, and may do the same this time. However I think I can now play around and see what rentals are in a few areas to see if it's worth leaving SD. Encinitas seems like a better place for kids, easier to find reasonable rents, however entertainment seems to be a growing industry, and one of our top exports.

Well, its definaltey the reason my husband and I are here! Wages are roughly double what we could expect for similar jobs - he: games programmer, me: contact animator -in the UK.

If you're thinking of renting then either Craigslist or Westside Rentals (www.westsiderentals.com) are the places to look. Westside Rentals charges $60 for 60 days, but you might be able to find someone to 'share' a password for it.
Unfortunately, my memebership has lapsed, or I'd give you mine. Anyway, I'd hazard a guess that you'd be able to find something suitable in Studio City, North Hollywood or Burbank. Word on the street is that rents are all over the place at the moment, due to the uncertaintly (in some people's minds, anyway) of which way prices are going - so you may be able to get a decent place for decent price, or at worst, get a free laugh from the more delusional LLs prices/properties.

As a guide, our place in West Van Nuys (Balboa/Roscoe) - 3b/2b SFR with a 6,000 lot, 2 car garage, washer/dryer/dishwasher, nicely landscaped, on a quiet street and in very good condition (hardwood floors, granite doodads in the kitchen) is $2150 per month. So, expect to pay anything from $2500 - $1500 for simliar, depending on the area.
Good luck!

Speedingpullet - you did an excellent job of covering L.A. What about the areas near Pasadena though? I have friends who live in a nice area in Altadena, and the commute wouldn't be too ridiculous to Burbank. I'm not too familiar with Pasadena though, but the people that grew up there tend to return there. There are also things for kids.

CARDIFF - you probably wouldn't consider the South Bay as the commute to NBC would be heinous. As far as Pasadena goes if you want to expand your zip realty search, other names would include San Marino, Altadena..."

The ex-recruiter in me will say definitely apply for the job and explore your housing options simultaneously. Remember, you might not even *get* the job, but you may learn more about the area and make some contacts... You brought up an extremely interesting point. I have never thought about where there are any upper middle class Latino areas, and none readily come to mind. I can think of affluent Black areas (I'm Black), and areas that are specifically considered an area that caters to certain races (like Chinatown, Glendale - which is also near Burbank). You could also look up Los Feliz maybe???

Anyway, I'm all over the map, but I hope I added some other food for thought...