San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

I completely disagree. They failed to ask the 'victims' this simple question: "So what exactly did you spend the money on that you BORROWED?"

I have little pity for those who borrower more than they can handle and I definitely don't see the banks as predatory (traditional banks anyway). If you don't pay back your debt with the interest you agreed to, you should be punished. Of course, there are those rare cases where a medical emergency or other unfortunate circumstance contribute to a person's inability to pay. Those types should be helped...but they are not the norm.

I agree with evolusd.

There have been studies of poor people who win multi-million dollar lotteries. They are generally poor again in 1 to 2 years. It is amazing how they manage to burn through so much money.

The difference between rich and poor has been proven to be in the spending and saving habits. If a poor person has extra money, they immediately spend it. They also don't want to cut back. The prefer to try to spend like they are rich.

People who became wealthy (as opposed to inherited weath) try to find ways to make that extra money work for them.

Banks make money without the 'vulnerable'. You are forgetting construction and business loans for large companies. It would be interesting to find out just who this
'banking industry chief' is.

Oh come, come now evolusd! How about $40k for college fees. Even I have been in this country long enough to know that credit cards are how nearly everyone purchases everything from food to travel to TV's. But that is missing the point, which is that people who don't necessarily have the means or experience to understand how quickly debt can pile up, are systematically targeted. Moreover, there are much wider ramifications for an economy based on debt, which should now be very apparent from the current credit crisis. Sure, there are those who use and abuse the system irresponsibly for personal gain, but by and large enticements to borrow rarely educate or advertise the potential downside or threats.

Ucodegen, have you actually seem the film? If a poor person who has extra money immediately spends it, it's also because they are poor and are in need.

Ucodegen, have you actually seem the film? If a poor person who has extra money immediately spends it, it's also because they are poor and are in need.

Does having worked in East LA qualify me for an opinion?? I take raw experience over any one's propaganda film, any day!

Ugh that was the worst movie ever. It was very poorly made, and, as stated here and also here it was just a bunch of irresponsible hillbillies trying to make out credit companies as evil.

What about $40k for college fees? I don't understand your point there, qwerty.

So what if everyone uses credit cards to purchase what they need...I know I do so I can earn points/miles/cash. However, I know (as everyone else should) that I will have to pay that money back with interest and that I shouldn't buy what I cannot afford. Nothing in this world is free.

You're saying the point is that people who "don't have the experience to understand how quickly debt can pile up are targeted". Sorry...no sympathy. All someone has to do is ask themselves right before they swipe that credit card, do I have enough money to pay for this? Not rocket science.

I will give in to one argument you are making...banks make a killing off people who are naive enough to get into debt over their heads. However, there is a risk/return ratio that you have to consider. Those who are late and aren't paying their bills are a much higher risk to the bank, so they should be charged a higher rate and fees for NOT LIVING UP TO THEIR END OF THE CONTRACT.

Sometimes the judgment here and the lack of compassion is astounding to me. That one would ever use terms like poor people and rich people makes me sad, as we are all, underneath it, people.

I used to have serious cc debt.

I also experienced a lot of abuse as a child and was not taught to value myself or how to care for myself. Those were things I had to make a conscious choice to learn. And as I learned those things, on the way to learning my value and feeling my value, I healed the belief that I never had enough, the belief that was underlying my issues with money.

Now, while healing, I was surviving (barely) in a reality where we are programmed to believe that what we own, what we are able to do, and how much money we have is all a measure of who we are. So many feel their identity is defined by where they live, what they do, and what they own. So much so, that they will spend what they do not have to prove to themselves they are worthy.

Nothing is black and white. There is no right or wrong. There is only the moment and the choices the moment brings.

Sometimes the judgment here and the lack of compassion is astounding to me. That one would ever use terms like poor people and rich people makes me sad, as we are all, underneath it, people.

There is no lack of compassion, but there is understanding beyond the sympathy. I have tried to help people who get themselves in deep (not only financially). It almost wiped me out and it was extremely exhausting. It taught me that sometimes people have to go through the fire to finally learn. They don't learn when they are continually 'rescued'. I now only engage in helping when I see them really commit to getting out of trouble and in more than just words.

As for being abused, just about everybody has their ghosts, including me. I have aired a few of mine on this forum.. no need to go into them at this time. In my opinion, your ghosts are where you started from. If it 20 years later, you really don't have much of an excuse. What makes a person, is the difference from where they started from to where they are now. I am not talking only financially when I say that.

There is no lack of compassion, but there is understanding beyond the sympathy.

I wouldn't say that.

I'm currently on the tail-end of a two year project to eliminate all of my personal debt.

And I'm *much* better person for it. If I won the lottery or one of my rich friends bailed me out I really think I would ultimately be worse off. The worst thing anyone can have is a sense of entitlement.

Edit: I'll add that I'm even a sob story. My debt was exclusively from emergency use while unemployed, dental work (that could not be postponed) and getting ripped of by an ex-girlfriend.

I'm still accountable and a better person for sacrificing to work it all off.

@kewp
And I'm *much* better person for it. If I won the lottery or one of my rich friends bailed me out I really think I would ultimately be worse off. The worst thing anyone can have is a sense of entitlement.

In a way, that is exactly what I am saying.. I understand what people are going through when they try to straighten their lives. That is the sympathy and compassion. But the understanding is emphasized in your 2nd and last statements. The understanding is that sometimes people have to work out the problem on their own instead of being bailed out, otherwise the problem will just repeat.

The understanding is that sometimes people have to work out the problem on their own instead of being bailed out, otherwise the problem will just repeat.

Exactly.

Part of the reason I accumulated so much debt is that I wasn't saving for a rainy day in the first place. And put myself in a position to be taken advantage of by friends, girls or otherwise. I've permanently rectified both issues since then :).

I consider myself lucky that I've learned my life lessons early. When I read these stories about folks in their 40's and 50's and bankrupt, I just shake my head. I can't even imagine having to start over that late in life.

What I have *no* sympathy for is the folks that have ruined themselves through over-consumption. McMansions, SUV's, vacations, big TV's, etc. I say bring back debtors prisons for these people.

"credit cards are how nearly everyone purchases everything from food to travel to TV's."

That's because 'nearly everyone' is either financially illiterate or just plain stupid.

I haven't carried a credit card balance in over 5 years. I pay cash for everything, including vacations, food (entertainment) and electronics (toys). That you and 'nearly everyone' else doesn't shows that ya'll have alot of learning to do.

Private companies would be prosecuted for deceptive marketing practices if they promised multi-million dollar payouts, but only paid only 50K per year per million won. Only recently has CA given lump sump payout option. So JSP winning a few million is typically only getting a 100-200K per year but thinks he is rich and speding like he has 6M in the bank. Pretty stupid, but then again most people (even here) think he had 6M in the bank.

That film was very political. The underlying theme is that overconsumption is an illness, not a choice; and creditors are criminals because they exploit the sick. I completely disagree with both notions.

Thank you Enorah, well said!

Rather then ripping people apart for making bad decisions, be grateful that you had the insight and the income to not get yourself in trouble. Really, be grateful you aren't in their shoes. I am not saying have pitty (well maybe a little kindness), but rather than focusing on such negative energy, be grateful for your knowledge and wisdom that kept you on the right track to where you are today.

I haven't seen the movie so I cannot comment, but I did grow up with a mother that could barely afford to put food on the table or pay the electric bill. Any credit card debt that she incurred was for living expenses, not tv's or designer clothes, nor vacations. There are a lot of greedy people that overspend for a number of reasons (self esteem/identity issues), but there are also a lot of people really struggling who just don't understand revolving credit debt and get themselves in terrible trouble.

I haven't had a chance to fully see it. But real quick, backtracking to high school days, anyone peer-pressured into smoking?

I mean, just b/c everyone is doing it, doesn't mean you have to.

Insight? Sorry. I must repeat. I suck at math. I have NO special degreess. But it was glaringly obvious to me that numbers don't add up and temporary low rates that "may" go up means laws of probability apply and living on borrowed time.

One would have to be blind to not see this. There is no insight required. No wisdom needed. Just common sense.

The only thing that was difficult was not following the herd off the cliff. That's hard. Easy to be swayed, especially when everyone is nudging you.

BUT, back to my analogy. Say nope to dope and ugg to drugs.

Enorah said: "Nothing is black and white. There is no right or wrong. There is only the moment and the choices the moment brings."

That, Enorah, is the kind of thinking that gets people into trouble. There is a right and wrong. For instance, it is WRONG to borrow money you can't or won't, pay back.

It is also wrong to blame all of your problems on other people. Blame the people responsible, not the folks you don't know.

Bad decisions = bad outcomes. It never fails.

Brutus, I respectfully disagree.

It is lack of love of self and others that leads to destruction.

"bad" decisions are always born out of trauma or lack of emotional understanding (there is knowing better and then there is knowing better on an emotional level).

We are all just here on this planet learning as we go. Good for you, that you are where you are, that you have learned what you have learned.

I am speaking from a spiritual and karmic perspective here. There truly is no right or wrong to our choices. There is only choice and the consequences of those choices that allow us to learn.

I am grateful for my debt as I am grateful for my freedom from it, as the path has made me much more compassionate for those who believe they are enslaved.

And, yes, I said it, enslaved. For that is the illusion we are all working on seeing and then freeing ourselves from, enslavement.

We are sovereign and it is our birthright here to experience abundance and joy.

The paths to that truth are as varied as the beings who walk it, but we are all walking it, whether we get there in this lifetime, this reality, or another. We are all One.

Enorah,

Your comments above are an example of you accepting responsiblity for your decisions and the recognition that you are where you are right now as a result of your decisions. You are looking inward for your answers. You are not dwelling on the external factors in your life or deferring your personal responsibilities to others.

That's indicative of no small amount of emotional maturity. If everyone behaved in similar fashion this film would have never been made due to lack of subject material.

One more thing - as long as we're talking about karma and the universe, it's my understanding that acting with compassion can be interpreted as not depriving individuals of the opportunity to experience and learn from the results of their decisions.

compassion - to me - is simply opening my heart and eliminating judgment.

A recognition that everyone is perfect and beautiful just as they are.

"bad" decisions are always born out of trauma or lack of emotional understanding (there is knowing better and then there is knowing better on an emotional level).

I have to disagree with this.. I would have to add that bad decisions are also born out of "living in and for the moment". This type of mentality is often held by people who have been continually rescued since childhood. (Like many of the current young adults these days.)

"compassion - to me - is simply opening my heart and eliminating judgment.

A recognition that everyone is perfect and beautiful just as they are."

Your confusing compassion with consequences. I have compassion for my children (as perfect as they are) when they do something wrong. I also let them know that, while I love them, there are consequences for their decisions. Without consequences, those poor choices have a higher degree of repeating themselves.

vagabondo, I am not confused.

Nor am I saying that there is no need for cause and effect.

That is how we learn and grow.

The comments above (perhaps somewhat unsurprisingly) largely seem to be saying that the film was one-sided and biased. And it does seem that 'balance' is often left out of the equation in these socio-political documentary films made in the US. That is unfortunate, but if one speculates as to why that is, one conclusion may be that parochialism by nature is not susceptible to introspection and self criticism, and therefore one has to fight fire with fire. Now I am not saying that everyone here is simple-minded, or has a provincial, small town mind-set, but for all those advocates of 'balance', I don't see many posts that seem to practice what they preach. Yes, even I am guilty of bias by my favorable endorsement. I was just so enthused to see something vaguely intelligent on TV, that I wanted to tell everyone about it. But this is a digression. The real questions are: What is the point of the film? What are its motives? Who is it speaking to?

I think the film was talking to everyone, and on two levels; firstly, the personal tales of woe, the 'victims' of a system that has become overwhelming, and confusing, and secondly, the broader picture where the economy as a whole is affected by this phenomenon 'debt'. I believe that is why we are all here on this blog, is it not?. Motives may have been political, but we should all be pretty good at filtering all the bias, misinformation, and crap that get's thrown at us everyday. But for the sake of argument, even it one says the film is fifty percent lop-sided, that leaves a enough to pause for thought, and possibly re-evaluate preconceived notions we all have. And I think that is the point of the film, and everyone would be better for watching it ...and preferably with an open mind :)

@qwerty007

I've read the book that the film is based on (or was written during film production).

While I WAS dumbfounded by some of the behavior of the financial institutions (e.g. sending credit card offers to a woman who was currently being foreclosed on by the same bank) I did repeatedly see the same dumb behavior BY THE BORROWERS.

For instance, while it is stupid for the bank to be sending credit offers to a woman in foreclosure, how stupid is it for the woman to take advantage of those offers?

One of the points of the movie was that consumers increasingly see credit as a 'badge of honor'. They figure (incorrectly) that the banks wouldn't offer them credit if they can't afford to make the payments.

All you have to do is look at people in the news to see that how well the movie captures this sentiment. People pulling money out of HELOC's and putting it in a CD or Money Market account before the credit dries up. People who are near bankruptcy and foreclosure continuing to spend on vacations, cars, tv's and maxing out their credit. People who refinanced and pulled out tens of thousands of dollars to pay off staggering credit card bills only to charge them back up.

Yes, companies are taking advantage of people. But many of those people are victims of their own stupidity and laziness as much as the financial institutions that people are villifying.

It's like the woman I saw interviewed on consumerist.com the other day who was too lazy to walk a few blocks and use a bank to cash a check--she'd rather walk across the street and use a check cashing place and pay the fees. So, who is to blame, the check cashing place for charging the high fee or the stupid person paying the fee WILLINGLY?

When one is reacting from a place of trauma or loss or desperation often logic can not and does not apply.

It is not stupidity or laziness.

I have felt desperate in my life and I made choices that could have been construed by others at the time as stupid (and were, in fact). For me, it was simply a matter of survival. I believed I had no other choice.

For those of you who have not felt desperate and do not know what it is to be in that situation, why not just be grateful.

For those of you who have and are now bitter, why not let it go?

I see, so people who use credit unwisely are just misunderstood and need a hug?

I can imagine the look of desperation on the faces of those charging all the clothes, dinners and flat screen tv's on their credit cards.

For those of you who have and are now bitter, why not let it go?
We're not bitter. It is very simple. We know that the responsible tax payers are being lined up to shoulder this upcoming burden. This includes people on fixed income. All these stories of the 'poor people' are just trying to line everything up to make it seem acceptable. The only problem is that if people who are in dire straights now, don't learn from their mistakes, it will only be repeated if they are bailed out.

I am tired of bailing out an overspending congress.. and now irresponsible speculators, homebuyers, high paid corporate investment directors and companies.

"It is lack of love of self and others that leads to destruction.

"bad" decisions are always born out of trauma or lack of emotional understanding (there is knowing better and then there is knowing better on an emotional level)."

Enorah, I agree that we all should have more compassion in life for those who are unable to obtain the basic needs in life or have been struck by misfortune.

I do not however agree that everyone makes choices because they lack love of themselves or that their bad decisions are always born of trauma. I know plenty of people who are flat out spoiled who came from great loving families but got spoiled rotten. They love themselves so much they are narcissistic. They feel "entitled". They are selfish. There are people who will always take more than their fair share. There are those are are conniving and will look to work the system. There is a right and wrong. Murder is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Ultimately, spending money on credit or borrowing, with the intention of never paying it back when that is what you've agreed to, is tantamount to stealing.