Manhunt

User Forum Topic
Submitted by no_such_reality on February 7, 2013 - 10:14am

The four county area currently has a manhunt on for an ex-cop accused of killing a couple in Irvine and opening fire a cops.

In other news, courtesy of the manhunt, LAPD and Torrance PD in two separate in instances opened fire on two different vehicles similar to the vehicle of the suspect.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20...

Oh nice, apparently the people shot were two women delivering newspapers...

Quote:

Two women who were shot by Los Angeles police in Torrance early Thursday during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer were delivering newspapers, sources said.

The women, shot in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue, were taken to area hospitals, Torrance police Lt. Devin Chase said. They were not identified. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back, according to Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated.

It was not immediately known what newspapers the women were delivering. Television images showed the blue pickup riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lying in the street alongside.

Newspaper Women Shot

Submitted by spdrun on February 7, 2013 - 11:08am.

The trigger-happy cretins who shot the innocent people would be strung up Iranian-style on the courthouse lawn in a just world. Good example for cops to be more careful in future and not engage in Crip-style drivebys.

As to the cop who set this thing off, he should be happy to know that they treat ex-cops reeeeealy well in the klink.

Submitted by no_such_reality on February 7, 2013 - 11:31am.

He isn't going to the klink.

Looks like Point Loma may be the final stand. (If they've got the right ID)

Egads, I think I just saw the TV feed on the LATimes site and one of the newscaster is opining that if you have a dark truck you should think about taking an alternate vehicle today...

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 11:46am.

Looks like people have more to fear from crazed (ex)cops with guns than criminals with guns right now... (and you can add scared cops with guns who shoot first check second to that list as well -- one of the two LA mistake shootings was done in the victims back)

Submitted by no_such_reality on February 7, 2013 - 11:55am.

Looks pretty hard to explain, IMHO. This is the women's truck.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d...

Submitted by spdrun on February 7, 2013 - 12:00pm.

(and you can add scared cops with guns who shoot first check second to that list as well -- one of the two LA mistake shootings was done in the victims back)

Scared cops? Trigger-happy baboons. Can't handle the job, don't take it. They deserve all of the lawsuits that are no doubt coming their way.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 12:03pm.

spdrun wrote:

(and you can add scared cops with guns who shoot first check second to that list as well -- one of the two LA mistake shootings was done in the victims back)

Scared cops? Trigger-happy baboons. Can't handle the job, don't take it. They deserve all of the lawsuits that are no doubt coming their way.

Both scared cops and trigger-happy baboons are a problem. The trigger-happy baboons don't check second after shooting first.. they shoot second and third and then claim that they were scared for their life and that an unarmed person was threatening to their safety and looked like they were holding a weapon.

Submitted by spdrun on February 7, 2013 - 12:08pm.

Hopefully, a jury won't agree and will bankrupt their sorry asses into homelessness. At least the area has a nice, warm, climate for sleeping under a bridge.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 12:10pm.

spdrun wrote:
Hopefully, a jury won't agree and will bankrupt their sorry asses into homelessness. At least the area has a nice, warm, climate for sleeping under a bridge.
The problem is that the attorneys for the cops that shot the innocent people are paid for by citizens of California.. because it was done in the process of their normal job. Unless there is extreme negligence, which is rarely found, they are literally immune from prosecution.

Submitted by spdrun on February 7, 2013 - 12:17pm.

Not immune from a relative of the people who were shot pumping a few rounds into their kneecaps after the whole thing is long forgotten. Just enough damage to cripple for life, not kill of course.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 12:21pm.

spdrun wrote:
Not immune from a relative of the people who were shot pumping a few rounds into their kneecaps after the whole thing is long forgotten. Just enough damage to cripple for life, not kill of course.
You forgot enhanced gun control.. If the relatives do not already have a firearm, do you think the background check will now allow them to purchase one? Particularly if you consider that they have a 'grievance' against the police.

If they already have one, don't you think that there may be a 'pretense' to confiscate? California will confiscate your firearms if you are convicted of misdemeanor battery.

Submitted by spdrun on February 7, 2013 - 12:25pm.

Uh, if someone is bent on doing something illegal, do you think they'll be so worried about buying a gun (or fire-axe, or iron pipe) legally? Come on.

Personally, I hope that the baboons get the book thrown at them legally, so it doesn't come to someone resorting to vigilantism.

Lastly, why does it always seem to be a dept in California? From what I read, LAPD, Oakland, and BART-PD have 2x to 3x the officer-involved shooting rate of the NYPD.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 12:36pm.

spdrun wrote:
Uh, if someone is bent on doing something illegal, do you think they'll be so worried about buying a gun (or fire-axe, or iron pipe) legally? Come on.

True.. which is why I think the whole gun-control argument is stupid. If these people are law abiding, it is harder to get the weapons because they do not have the contacts into that 'side' of society.. but eventually they may develop them. Because they may not already have the contacts to purchase an illegal weapon, they may be trapped in a sting on illegal weapon purchases... almost like how people soliciting for murder are caught. (In a way, getting shafted twice)

spdrun wrote:
Personally, I hope that the baboons get the book thrown at them legally, so it doesn't come to someone resorting to vigilantism.
Ditto..

spdrun wrote:
Lastly, why does it always seem to be a dept in California? From what I read, LAPD, Oakland, and BART-PD have 2x to 3x the officer-involved shooting rate of the NYPD.
I don't know about the numbers.. I have always heard that NYPDs rate is higher. Either way, any abuse of authority by law enforcement is extremely wrong and should be dealt with very severely.

Submitted by pabloesqobar on February 7, 2013 - 12:50pm.

From his manifesto:

"I will conduct DA operations to destroy, exploit and seize designated targets. If unsuccessful or unable to meet objectives in these initial small-scale offensive actions, I will reassess my BDA and re-attack until objectives are met. I have nothing to lose. My personal casualty means nothing. Just alike AAF’s, ACM’s, and AIF’s, you can not prevail against an enemy combatant who has no fear of death. An enemy who embraces death is a lose, lose situation for their enemy combatants.

Hopefully you analyst have done your homework. You are aware that I have always been the top shot, highest score, an expert in rifle qualifications in every unit I’ve been in. I will utilize every bit of small arms training, demolition, ordnance, and survival training I’ve been given.

Do you know why we are unsuccessful in asymmetrical and guerrilla warfare in CENTCOM theatre of operations? I’ll tell you. It’s not the inefficiency of our combatant commanders, planning, readiness or training of troops. Much like the Vietnam war, ACM, AAF, foreign fighters, Jihadist, and JAM have nothing to lose. They embrace death as it is a way of life. I simply don’t fear it. I am the walking exigent circumstance you created.

The Violence of action will be HIGH. I am the reason TAC alert was established. I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty. ISR is my strength and your weakness. You will now live the life of the prey. Your RD’s and homes away from work will be my AO and battle space. I will utilize every tool within INT collections that I learned from NMITC in Dam Neck. You have misjudged a sleeping giant.

There is no conventional threat assessment for me. JAM, New Ba’ath party, 1920 rev BGE, ACM, AAF, AQAP, AQIM and AQIZ have nothing on me. Do not deploy airships or gunships. SA-7 Manpads will be waiting. As you know I also own Barrett .50′s so your APC are defunct and futile.

You better have all your officers radio/phone muster (code 1) on or off duty every hour, on the hour.
Do not attempt to shadow or conduct any type of ISR on me. I have the inventory listing of all UC vehicles at Piper Tech and the home addresses of any INT analyst at JRIC and detachment locations. My POA is always POI and always true. This will be a war of attrition and a Pyrrhic and Camdean Victory for myself. You may have the resources and manpower but you are reactive and predictable in your op plans and TTP’s. I have the strength and benefits of being unpredictable, unconventional, and unforgiving. Do not waste your time with briefs and tabletops."

Submitted by moneymaker on February 7, 2013 - 1:52pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
Looks pretty hard to explain, IMHO. This is the women's truck.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d40da0bf1970c-640wi

Absolutely horrible groupings, they should be ashamed!

Submitted by spdrun on February 7, 2013 - 2:02pm.

Exactly -- they need to institute eye testing and marksmanship lessons, perhaps from an ex-military instructor. Spraying and praying endangers everyone.

Submitted by no_such_reality on February 7, 2013 - 2:32pm.

Oh, the hole is getting stinky.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/...

Quote:
At Dorner's disciplinary hearing, numerous officers testified about a July 28, 2007, "use of force" incident at the Doubletree Hotel in San Pedro in which Dorner's training officer, Sgt. Teresa Evans, shot a mentally ill man with a Taser gun to subdue him when Dorner and the man struggled and fell into bushes.
Other officers and witnesses described the use of force similarly, but Dorner filed a report saying Evans had kicked the man twice in the shoulder and face, and discouraged him from including the information in his police report.

Submitted by Huckleberry on February 7, 2013 - 2:38pm.

Here is the complete "non-media scrubbed" manifesto.

The media is already releasing redacted copies of his writing without the pro-left/gun control content. The redacted copy is ~12 pages long and the original is ~ 22 pages. Without getting too political, here is a story about the two versions that have been released.

I’m posting this link because it’s the only copy that hasn't been scrubbed.

It obviously depicts a wacko!

http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/...

Submitted by no_such_reality on February 7, 2013 - 2:51pm.

Huckleberry wrote:

It obviously depicts a wacko!

You mean plotting an killing multiple people 3 years of stewing wasn't enough of a clue?

Submitted by desmond on February 7, 2013 - 3:53pm.

It looks like the guy is now up in the Big Bear area out on foot. His burned out truck was just shown on TV. Hopefully the residents near there have adequate supply of guns and ammunition to defend themselves, not just their manpurses.

Submitted by Huckleberry on February 7, 2013 - 6:14pm.

desmond wrote:
It looks like the guy is now up in the Big Bear area out on foot. His burned out truck was just shown on TV. Hopefully the residents near there have adequate supply of guns and ammunition to defend themselves, not just their manpurses.

Agreed!

Hopefully for them, considering who they are dealing with, they have semi-auto assault rifles, shotguns and handguns. Personally I would want all three against a guy of this magnitude...

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 6:18pm.

The angle of the burnt out truck is unusual.. it is cross-road. Almost like he wants it to be found. Winter in Big Bear is not a good time to be out in the open. I wonder if the P-U is a diversion? He might be back towards LA.. They need to check for rental vehicles, and who rented them.

From a tactical point, it would be effective for him to have police looking for a person in a large mountainous area while being back down in town. He may have also put on skin lightener or 'light makeup'.. since they are looking for a large black man. If he was going to 'wait them out' in the mountains, he might have burned the truck and then start shooting the police when they get to the truck before disappearing into the mountains. Instead he was no where to be found.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 6:22pm.

Huckleberry wrote:
Hopefully for them, considering who they are dealing with, they have semi-auto assault rifles, shotguns and handguns. Personally I would want all three against a guy of this magnitude...
Ironically, this guy wanted to ban AR-15s etc.. while reserving the right to Barret-50 and SA-7s for himself (as if he really has a surface to air missile or two..).

Submitted by CA renter on February 7, 2013 - 6:47pm.

ucodegen wrote:
The angle of the burnt out truck is unusual.. it is cross-road. Almost like he wants it to be found. Winter in Big Bear is not a good time to be out in the open. I wonder if the P-U is a diversion? He might be back towards LA.. They need to check for rental vehicles, and who rented them.

From a tactical point, it would be effective for him to have police looking for a person in a large mountainous area while being back down in town. He may have also put on skin lightener or 'light makeup'.. since they are looking for a large black man. If he was going to 'wait them out' in the mountains, he might have burned the truck and then start shooting the police when they get to the truck before disappearing into the mountains. Instead he was no where to be found.

This is exactly what I thought when they found the truck. This guy is not stupid.

Submitted by desmond on February 7, 2013 - 6:53pm.

ucodegen wrote:
The angle of the burnt out truck is unusual.. it is cross-road. Almost like he wants it to be found. Winter in Big Bear is not a good time to be out in the open. I wonder if the P-U is a diversion? He might be back towards LA.. They need to check for rental vehicles, and who rented them.

From a tactical point, it would be effective for him to have police looking for a person in a large mountainous area while being back down in town. He may have also put on skin lightener or 'light makeup'.. since they are looking for a large black man. If he was going to 'wait them out' in the mountains, he might have burned the truck and then start shooting the police when they get to the truck before disappearing into the mountains. Instead he was no where to be found.

Why would you burn the truck? It only calls attention to it. I really think now he is going by the seat of his pants, I looked at the tracks of his truck from the tv and because it is not a 4x4 it looks like he got stuck. He probably hiked up the hill away from homes and will have to bivouac for the night. A freezing cold storm is on that mountain now, he won't go far, to steep, high altitude, and he does not look in that good of shape. If I lived up there I would be awake all night and ready to defend myself.

Submitted by Blogstar on February 7, 2013 - 8:02pm.

I think Desmond is right. This guy is done. Hopefully there is no hostage situation in it.
If he is in the hills, he is not too far from that truck and it seems police dogs would have him pointed out already.

Submitted by paramount on February 7, 2013 - 11:13pm.

Sure doesn't help the case against the 2nd amendment.

Notice there's barely any mention in the news that the cops shot up innocent bystanders.

Oh well, they're just expendable civilians.

The Military Industrial Police State gone wild.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 7, 2013 - 10:57pm.

desmond wrote:
Why would you burn the truck? It only calls attention to it. I really think now he is going by the seat of his pants, I looked at the tracks of his truck from the tv and because it is not a 4x4 it looks like he got stuck. He probably hiked up the hill away from homes and will have to bivouac for the night. A freezing cold storm is on that mountain now, he won't go far, to steep, high altitude, and he does not look in that good of shape. If I lived up there I would be awake all night and ready to defend myself.

I don't know about that. Did you look at it before it was attached to the tow truck.. or after? I saw only one image of it before the tow truck arrived and the vehicle was across the road, and would have been quite easy to drive it out from there. It almost looked like it was placed intentionally, and near an intersection. The area is mostly plowed, slushy but plowed. The problem is that his vehicle had been made.. it was no longer safe to use. Now the police are taking quite a bit of time to check the area. Typical. He did write that the way the police handle these things is predictable.

So the scenarios could be..

1) Got stuck.. decided to burn truck(which does not make that much sense because it calls attention to that area -> mountain + smoke means fast response). Police and Fire come to investigate, but he hadn't set up a blind to take some rifle shots from before relocating? Doesn't make sense in this context. The fire created a police target rich environment. It is also unusual considering that it is so cold up there right now, and will be colder shortly.

2) Placed vehicle across road far enough away from center of town so activity will not be seen. Has another car already there (having one or more 'backup' vehicles would be useful if one is trying to attempt what he intends). Stealing a car would not be useful because the vehicle gets ID'd when the theft is reported. His truck is no longer useful, so burns it to attract attention while heading out in another direction. It also causes the Police to now think he is on foot. They are busy focusing on the mountain.. Remember that he did this shortly after he was being followed by police. BTW Corona is south of Big Bear.. along 15 North. I suspect that he was originally trying to mislead police to thinking he was going to Mexico. Unfortunately for this, he got made going through Corona. Now he has to make them think he is somewhere else that would take a while to 'search'.

I find the SD Boat 'kidnap' attempt interesting. Why didn't he order the owner to start it? He could also order the owner to maneuver/drive the boat as well. Starting a boat is not that hard. Particularly when it is on the end pier. Dropping of the ID in SD is also interesting (though it would not be of much use anymore anyway). Remember, this guy is military trained, probably in asymmetrical warfare. Has handled being under fire (more so than most police). Not typical police nor typical criminal.

Submitted by flu on February 8, 2013 - 1:41am.

You guys should read the manifesto....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/124382446/Chri...

If there's any truth to it, LAPD sounds pretty screwed up as usual.

What struck me is, he's seems to be a fairly well spoken, intelligent being from his writing. He must have snapped.

I don't doubt he got snowed under by the system.

Disturbing part of his manifesto that caught my eyes there's any shred of truth in it:


Citizens/non-combatants, do not render medical aid to downed officers/enemy combatants. Theywould not do the same for you. They will let you bleed out just so they can brag to other officers thatthey had a 187 caper the other day and can’t wait to accrue the overtime in future court subpoenas. As they always say, “that’s the paramedics job…not mine”. Let the balance of loss of life take place.Sometimes a reset needs to occur.....

Don’t honor these fallen officers/dirtbags. When your family members die, they just see you as extraovertime at a crime scene and at a perimeter. Why would you value their lives when they clearlydon’t value yours or your family members lives? I’ve heard many officers who state they see deadvictims as ATV’s, Waverunners, RV’s and new clothes for their kids. Why would you shed a tear for them when they in return crack a smile for your loss because of the impending extra money they willreceive in their next paycheck for sitting at your loved ones crime scene of 6 hours because of theovertime they will accrue. They take photos of your loved ones recently deceased bodies with their cellphones and play a game of who has the most graphic dead body of the night with officers fromother divisions. This isn’t just the 20 something year old officers, this is the 50 year old officers withsignificant time on the job as well who participat

Submitted by CA renter on February 8, 2013 - 3:50am.

Flu,

He may be fairly well-spoken, and certainly seems to be rather intelligent, but he's also mentally/emotionally unstable.

He might have some serious and very legitimate grievances, especially regarding the circumstances of his termination, but I've never heard of any police officers thinking about dead people (crime vicims?) as overtime, ATVs, etc.

BTW, when he refers to cops not doing anything to save a person's life, I don't think he's talking about crime victims or other innocent people in this rant. He is probably talking about cops not doing anything to save the life of a criminal they've just shot or beat up. Not saying that that's okay, just trying to get a better understanding of what he's trying to convey. Not sure how this would end up in more overtime, as they would have to go to court even if the person didn't die (might have to spend more time in court if the suspect didn't die and they have to proceed with a criminal case against the suspect).

Submitted by flu on February 8, 2013 - 7:24am.

CA renter wrote:

BTW, when he refers to cops not doing anything to save a person's life, I don't think he's talking about crime victims or other innocent people in this rant. He is probably talking about cops not doing anything to save the life of a criminal they've just shot or beat up. Not saying that that's okay, just trying to get a better understanding of what he's trying to convey. Not sure how this would end up in more overtime, as they would have to go to court even if the person didn't die (might have to spend more time in court if the suspect didn't die and they have to proceed with a criminal case against the suspect).

Oh that's just horseshit... Anyone that's ever lived in LA like I have know that cops have the persona of being bullies. Serve and protect my ass. And his rant about apathy of a cop when someone dies. Totally accurate. I recall when a friend was in high school and was involved in an accident...Cop was on seen and didn't do shit... And before you go off and say you be glad cops exist, because you never know when you might need them.... That's a bunch of crap too.
When someone broke into (walked into our offices) and stole a bunch of stuff (making it beyond petty theft) it too 3+ hours for a cop to show up to take a 15 minute report, of which we handed over a security tape showing the perp, the phone numbers he called from one of the stolen cell phones i traced, a rough pin-point of where he lived, his street name. This case was almost a slam dunk case... What happened? Absolutely nothing...Probably too busy writing a bunch of stupid parking/speeding tickets...and charging overtime...

It doesn't justify this guy's homicidal rampage, but still, serve and protect.. Um... sure....

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