San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

In my opinion, for a SFR (SFH, or whatever you call single family home) that is DETACHED, I wouldn't pay more than $50/month that has very little in terms of common area. (no common pool, no common recreation utility, no attached golf course, not gated community), etc.

That's the biggest qualm I have against some of the latest developments (for example some of the Pardee communities here in Carmel Valley.) I think the attached homes have HOA's for $150/month or something like this. The neighborhood has very little "common" to maintain imho, no shared resources, no shared pool, no gated community with a guard house, etc. I guess it might be common trees, and landscaping, but there isn't that much in a detached community. Where i live, there's very little to maintain (a hillside brush, which belongs to the city, not the HOA), and there's a $25/month HOA. I even think at times that's overkill, but $25/month is ok for me to chip in, considering the masters association organizes a free easter egg hunt every year .

Attached homes are different story.

selfportrait

----- Sour grapes for everyone!

If no pool -> $0

If pool -> $25 a month

flu, $25 or $50 would probably be ok with me. However, $100, $150, $200 for as long as I live in the home is a little hard to stomach. Especially since I'd like a pool-size lot to have the potential for putting in my own pool one day. Therefore, it seems illogical to pay a high HOA because there is a nice community pool and so forth.

$0.

I moved out of my parent's house a long time ago. I have no desire for others to tell me how long I can have my garage door open for, where I can't wax my cars, where I can park, etc.

I wouldn't use a community pool. I'll have my own.

When applying for a loan, do they take into account the HOA fee at all?

I'm willing to pay enough so my neighbours don't leave their garage doors open all day or park their beat up cars on blocks or thier motorhomes on the street all day. No clothlines in the backyeard and nicely kept lawns and no crap all over the place. Some people call it character, I call it crap.

They do take the hoa into account when qualifying for a loan, just like insurance and taxes.

I've had pools and the energy and maintenance costs can exceed $300 a month, not to mention replacement and repair of equipment so I'd pay $100 a month for a nice community pool. They are like boats and motorhomes, everyone wants one except those who have had them and know thier true cost and the amount of time you use them. I'm not fond of gates and that is where the high hoa costs come in, most gated communities cost $100 a month just for the gate. It isn't the gate that costs money it's the fact that the municipality won't repave or maintain the streets, sweep them or pay for the street lights if a community is gated because the public doesn't have access. I've seen gated communities cost over $100 with no ammenities and ungated ones with a pool and a gym cost $60. With attached homes it's different because it usually includes more such as water, fire insurance, trash, gardener, and a fund to replace fences, paint and replace roofs, etc. so when you add it up it's almost a wash.

Marion, the tax rate/mello roos is probably more important for resale than HOA. When looking at two or three competing houses and one has $50 more per month in hoa but the other has $2000 more per year in taxes, most buyers will pay the hoa and get the pool, you get nothing for the extra taxes. Up here 1.5 tax rate is about average but some of the tax items on the bill are of a fixed value so the rate can fluxuate based on the selling price so with two equally priced homes, check the actual tax bill difference, add in the hoa and make an informed decision.

And along the theme of Alex's comment, it is worth a great deal of money to me to not live next door to the guy with year round Christmas lights.

Clotheslines in the backyard? What do you care? It's in their backyard!?!

clothlines are an eye soar that any house around it can see. This is not Arkansas or Alabama where anything goes. We pay a boat load of cash for our homes and don't want to see anyting hillbillish around.

Some might not like living next to someone w/ clotheslines in other's backyard, but I say good luck to you if you want to put up a swing set or a basketball hoop for your kids in your backyard only to have your neighbor say you can't.

For me, I don't want anyone to tell me what I can or can't do w/ my home. The home I paid hard earned money for. So I don't want any HOA. But if I have to, the most I'll put up with is 20-30/month for exterior maintenance.

it is worth a great deal of money to me to not live next door to the guy with year round Christmas lights

How about banning Christmas lights.  They are all junk made in China anyway, use energy and cause global warming.  Most important of all, they are very garish looking. 

It seems like Mira Mesa and Clairemont have such light on houses year round. 

I would put up with clothe lines -- for the environment. At least those are "green."

I would never buy a house where I couldn't put up a clothes line in the backyard. Nobody is going to see it and it saves a ton of money and doesn't shrink clothes.

How about banning Christmas lights. They are all junk made in China anyway, use energy and cause global warming. Most important of all, they are very garish looking.

And all those pesky humans that emit all that CO2. They must be deal with next, Commisar. *Salutes*

Clothes dry faster when you attach the posts to the front and back bumper of the car and hang the clothes before going out to do errands. Doesn't take up space on the balcony. It is efficient to time the laundry with grocery runs since you will be unloading the car anyway. Two armloads of groceries can be too heavy but one of groceries and one of whites is alright. I use my truck since it has a lumber rack.I can hang multiple lines. Sometimes I don't have time to take the clothes off so I park across the street from my house. I got too much stucco on my truck during one job. It was easier just to stucco the whole thing than clean it. I think it is an original idea. HOA doesent like the color though. It has nice texture.

Clothes dry faster when you attach the posts to the front and back bumper of the car and hang the clothes before going out to do errands. Doesn't take up space on the balcony. It is efficient to time the laundry with grocery runs since you will be unloading the car anyway. Two armloads of groceries can be too heavy but one of groceries and one of whites is alright. I use my truck since it has a lumber rack.I can hang multiple lines. Sometimes I don't have time to take the clothes off so I park across the street from my house. I got too much stucco on my truck during one job. It was easier just to stucco the whole thing than clean it. I think it is an original idea. HOA doesent like the color though. It has nice texture.

I prefer sticking my clothes in the engine component after my spirited ride to and from the grocery store. Things dry in a few minutes, especially with a turbocharged car. There's plenty of heat leftover even after grilling my lunch.

It's pretty simple..Stick your favorite salmon, corn, potatos wrapped in nice aluminum foil. Secure the wrapped food next to your turbocharger or engine block, ensuring it does not slip into your timing belts, drivetrain, etc. Go out for a nice spirited ride to the grocery. Come back, lunch is done, and throw your nice pj's on the engine block.

This lady rocks. Got the idea from her. 

http://www.howtodothings.com/automotive/...

selfportrait

----- Sour grapes for everyone!

If you are discounting the cost of the home because of the HOA what does it matter. It was already factored into the discount on the house relative to houses in the area without HOA.

I don't like HOAs more than $100 for a SFR but unfortunately in South OC most SFRs have $100-200 HOA dues, for what I don't know. Before I moved to OC I hadn't ever heard of an SFR having HOA dues, they were only for condos.

HOA is for both operational and capital expenditures. Therefore each month of HOA not only pays for the landscaping and pool cleaning etc but it should also set up a reserve for long term depreation. That would be something like a roof on a community area, replacement of workout equiptment etc. What you may want to find out is what the reserve is. You can also ask for the depreciation schedules to see if the HOA is fair or unfair.

First off, I think some folks in this thread are conflating the existence of an HOA (with associated dues) with the existence of community rules about lights, clothes lines, etc. These two don't necessarily go together. A community can have an HOA in order to maintain common amenities such as a pool or playground, without necessarily having a lot of rules. (In theory you can also have the opposite, strict CC&Rs without an HOA, but this is rare.) You would really want to read the community's CC&Rs and bylaws, along with recent HOA minutes, to get a good idea.

As far as costs for HOA dues, I would always evaluate these relative to what they buy. If the amenities are ones that I would never use, then the fee may not be worth it even if it is low. I would also want to understand the financial condition of the HOA. Some HOAs keep dues low by under-funding their reserves and/or deferring long-term maintenance. This is bad and can lead to huge special assessments. I don't consider it a good result if I pay low dues for a while and then get whacked with a single huge bill because the roof of the clubhouse collapsed or some such.

TG: Marion, the tax rate/mello roos is probably more important for resale than HOA. When looking at two or three competing houses and one has $50 more per month in hoa but the other has $2000 more per year in taxes, most buyers will pay the hoa and get the pool, you get nothing for the extra taxes. Up here 1.5 tax rate is about average but some of the tax items on the bill are of a fixed value so the rate can fluxuate based on the selling price so with two equally priced homes, check the actual tax bill difference, add in the hoa and make an informed decision.

Great information. In considering HOA dues, I had forgotten to consider tax rate.

In favor of HOA dues and/or adequate CC&R's, here's my personal experience for the last two years regarding the neighbors next to the house I rent. I live in Rancho Bella Vista (for only 3 more days, Thank God!) Anyway, my neighbor to the left has kept her property unkempt ever since I moved here.

1. After I had been here for 3 days, she put up a dirty-looking sheet, complete with a very visible stain in her garage window.

2. Her driveway contains greasy stains from broken down cars of her relatives that live in the house and park there. She hasn't cleaned them up in two years.

3. Frequently, she keeps trash bags outside of her cans on the side of the house. It's an eyesore and it draws pests.

4. She regularly loads up the recycling can with regular trash. She did this until the waste company found out; now her unemployed son stands out there on trash day and buddy-buddy talks the trash guys to empty the recycling can onto the truck that takes the regular trash.

5. Oftentimes, there are broken down vehicles (e.g. flat tires, windows broken out) parked in her driveway. One time, her son's car was TOTALED and she had a tow truck deliver it to her driveway where it remained for several days. It could have been used in one of those "don't drink and drive ads"; it actually looked like it had been wrapped around a lightpost TWICE.

6. She has her garage door up frequently, either all or half-way. It looks nasty, there are grease stains on the concrete and it contains dirty, worn furniture and stained blankets and clothes. She does clean it up from time to time, but the nasty look remains.

7. There is a parade of foster kids that come and go from her house-although there haven't been any in the last year. Actually, I think she's not allowed to keep them anymore.

8. One night her relatives blasted the music so loud-past 12:00 midnight, that one of Temecula's finest (he lives on the next block) had to come and bang on her door until the music ceased. It sounded like he was barreling her door in.

Something to think about.

P.S. I will admit, I confronted her once, an unpleasant exchange of words ensued and the upshot of that was her swiveling her neck and declaring, "I ain't going nowhere!!"

As long as we have to pay property taxes, I aint payin no stinkin HOA dues. HOA dues are like the extended warranty upsell on the neighborhood. You may get a pool, but you also get gaggles of urinating brats at the pool and retirees who take their duties as HOA "Officers" way too seriously. Who wants to pay for Old Ethel to get all up in your business?

Well, OC, do you have a neighbor like in my last post? And we DO have a homeowners here. People have complained about my neighbor, and the HOA have had their work cut out for them just keeping her in check. Consider how much worse my neighbor could be without a homeowner's association. I was going to complain a few times myself, but then my landlord stopped paying his HOA dues...I don't really care, I knew I was leaving for awhile now. However, what about the poor people on the block that have to contend with her for the long haul? If there wasn't a homeowner's association, they'd be in misery for as long as she or they owned homes on this street.

Marion, you'll never win this argument and quite frankly you don't want to. There are two kinds of people in the world, HOA and non HOA people. Think of it as a religion, you can't talk people out of one and you are probably better off not talking people into one, let them find their own way. From your posts, you need an HOA, so realize it and find peace in that realization. The trouble exists when people don't realize what group they are in and buy a home in the wrong group. Your neighbor might be considered the neighbor of the year in another place, hailed for her ingenuity in trash collection tactics, it's all relative. Her self image was flawed and she bought where there were rules against things she considers normal. Don't make the reverse mistake and buy where there aren't any rules or you will be forever unhappy. If you really want to avoid getting a bad neighbor, don't buy new, buy resale where there is a strong HOA and you can see what your new neighbors homes look like after they have lived in them a few years. Another tactic is to knock on the doors of the neighbors houses before making an offer under the guise of just wanting to know what they think of the house you are considering. Rather than make everyone behave as you would like, find the place where they already do and live there, it's so much easier.

There is a new one. Those who like HOA and those who don't. Sort of like whole life vs term, cash vs finance, Yankees vs Mets. There is no in between you just have to take a side.

temeculaguy, I whole heartedly agree with you. Not every one want or like HOA. I'm currently living in a condo that have very up tight HOA people driving me crazy.

Marion, here's a flip side of your example. It was 8 PM on a Friday night. I was having friends over and we had dinner in the patio since the living area is not big enough and it's just more cooler being outside since it was a cool autumn night. My neighbor came and scolded us and told us to shut it down because they wanted their sleep. We weren't very loud either, just typical laughing/giggle at jokes.

Another instance would be, when I just moved in. We were unpacking and since the condo was small, we left some of the boxes in the patio as we unpack. Well, that was against HOA rules and we got a letter for that. Another would be news paper at the front door. Sometimes we're lazy and didn't take in the news paper for a day or two. We got a knock on the door by HOA person for that too.

Thank goodness I didn't buy here. I'd go insane and would just tell everyone to go screw themselves since it's MY home and I can do what I want for it. If they want to pay for my mortgage, then then can tell me what I can and can't do w/ my home. Like temeculaguy said, you'll never be able to convince me to like HOA and I'm sure I won't be able to convince you to not like HOA.

Looks like the community is getting a good return on their HOA investment!

From your posts, you definitely need to live in an community with a strong HOA. With your keen observation skills, you'd be a great asset to the HOA committee. :)

Good luck in Temecula/Murrieta. Cheap property is conducive to the problems you have had.

asian, sure you were all quietly laughing and giggling. I bet you all laughed real quiet. Come one man. I know neighbours like you. They think they're being quiet but they aren't. Especially the women, they have no idea how to laugh quietly. You say the home is yours and you can do what you want, but I bet you would be crying like a little school girl if your neighbour was a bunch of hell's angels practicing their rock band all night long. For goodness sakes, pick up your freaking paper.

temeculaguy, I whole heartedly agree with you. Not every one want or like HOA. I'm currently living in a condo that have very up tight HOA people driving me crazy.

Marion, here's a flip side of your example. It was 8 PM on a Friday night. I was having friends over and we had dinner in the patio since the living area is not big enough and it's just more cooler being outside since it was a cool autumn night. My neighbor came and scolded us and told us to shut it down because they wanted their sleep. We weren't very loud either, just typical laughing/giggle at jokes.

Another instance would be, when I just moved in. We were unpacking and since the condo was small, we left some of the boxes in the patio as we unpack. Well, that was against HOA rules and we got a letter for that. Another would be news paper at the front door. Sometimes we're lazy and didn't take in the news paper for a day or two. We got a knock on the door by HOA person for that too.

Thank goodness I didn't buy here. I'd go insane and would just tell everyone to go screw themselves since it's MY home and I can do what I want for it. If they want to pay for my mortgage, then then can tell me what I can and can't do w/ my home. Like temeculaguy said, you'll never be able to convince me to like HOA and I'm sure I won't be able to convince you to not like HOA.

Your problem is that you're too nice. You should have just thrown out the race card, and said something like "It's because I'm asian, isn't it?" :)

At least your friends car didn't get towed because he/she blocked was parked in a shared driveway for 15mins to unload stuff. When were were at our previous attached place, there was no parking left, and my friend parked behind a shared driveway unloading stuff, leaving the flashers on and a note to his car that told anyone to call him on the the attached cell number if the car needed to be moved immediately. He was inside unloading for about 10-15 minutes. His car was towed in the that time, apparently some parking nazi neighbor complained. 

This reminds me of how attached homes blows...though I've been having trouble with my current neighbor regarding "landscaping" and wish our HOA had more bite.

selfportrait

----- Sour grapes for everyone!

Alex_angel, it's 8 freakin' PM on a Friday night. If you like people controlling your life, power to you man. It's definitely not for me. Oh, and your assumption about me crying like a little girl regarding living next rockers. Well, guess what, I'll be out there modding and testing my cars right next to them. Either that or I'll be playing my Rockband at the same time. I was up until 2 AM yesterday doing it. Too bad I couldn't crank it up. Oh, and you really don't know me. I can sleep through anything. Haven't anyone taught you what the word assume stands for?

Hahah, FLU, I have that exact same problem once. I went to visit my uncle. On the day we came, there was no parking, so I tried to squeeze as far into his drive way as I could. One of my wheel end up slightly on the sidewalk, while I unload my stuff. W/in 10 minutes, my car was being towed. Luckily my cousin caught them and I gave the guy some cash to stop. But I know exactly what you mean FLU. I'm sure those are the same type of people marion and Alex love to have as neighbor. I say, good for them.