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How do I go about investigating this?User Forum Topic
Submitted by NeetaT on June 11, 2009 - 4:09pm
How do I go about investigating this? I have attached the website and my e-mail correspondence. Hello: Hello: Hello: Personal Loan Agreement 5. After you sign the initial Personal Loan Agreement and Promissory Note & Payment Schedule, all future Promissory Notes & Payment Schedules will only be signed by the borrower unless there are changes or modifications to this agreement or unless the interest rate or time period changes from that specified in this agreement. The lender will not need to sign any other documents unless there are changes or modifications to this agreement or to the original Promissory Note & Payment Schedule. 6. Legal Jargon: This is the entire agreement between the parties. It replaces and supersedes any and all oral agreements between the parties, as well as any prior writings. This agreement binds and benefits the heirs, successors and assignees of the parties. All notices must be in writing. A notice may be delivered to a party at the address that follows a party's signature or to a new address that a party designates in writing. A notice may be delivered: • in person • by certified mail, or • by overnight courier • or in the case of the promissory note specified herein, by e-mail. This agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California and all actions must be brought in California. This agreement may be modified only by a writing signed by the party against whom such modification is sought to be enforced. If one party waives any term or provision of this agreement at any time, that waiver will be effective only for the specific instance and specific purpose for which the waiver was given. If either party fails to exercise or delays exercising any of its rights or remedies under this agreement, that party retains the right to enforce that term or provision at a later time. Either party can cancel this agreement at any time but money will not be transmitted until the end of the current round that your investment is in and/or the terms as specified in the promissory note or herein. Starfire Technology can prepay all of any part of the principal without penalty. The Promissory Note is unsecured. Borrower further promises to pay interest on any principal amount owed after the specified payment due date in the promissory note, at the yearly rate of 7% simple interest. If any court determines that any provision of this agreement is invalid or unenforceable, any invalidity or unenforceability will affect only that provision and will not make any other provision of this agreement invalid or unenforceable and such provision shall be modified, amended or limited only to the extent necessary to render it valid and enforceable. This agreement will be construed to benefit the borrower. If a dispute arises, either party may take the matter to court. Borrower agrees that if any payment provided for in this Note is late, in default, or unpaid for at least 30 days, it would be impracticable or extremely difficult to fix the actual damages resulting to the Payee. Therefore, Borrower agrees to pay the Lender the sum of $500.00 on default, as liquidated damages and not as a penalty, to compensate the Lender for expenses of administering the default. Borrower and Lender agree that if any legal action is necessary to enforce or collect this Note for nonpayment at maturity, the prevailing party will be entitled to reasonable attorneys’ fees in addition to any other relief to which that party may be entitled. This Loan Agreement applies to all future Loan Agreements and Promissory Notes now and in the future unless modified in writing signed by all parties. This agreement is solely between the borrower and the Steve Bartko dba as Starfire Technology. Address: ____________________________________________________________________________ Telephone: Home ______________ Cell ______________Work ______________ Fax ______________ Your E-mail: ___________________________________________ Social Security Number: _______________________________ for 1099 INT or K1. Initial investment amount: $____________________________ Date: ____________________________________ *Lender (Investor) Signature: ____________________________________________ *Lender (Investor) Signature: ____________________________________________ Borrower: _________________________________________ Promissory Note & Payment Schedule 1. Names BORROWER: LENDER: 2. Promise to RePay For value received as Starfire Technology working capital, Borrower promises to pay Lender the amount specified herein per guidelines described below. All repayment requests of principal and/or interest must be made by lender in writing or email no later than 25 days prior to the investment maturity (due date) and will be paid within 25 days after maturity. Borrower further promises to pay interest on any principal amount owed after this specified payment maturity due date at the yearly rate of 7%. Borrower will pay the requested amount of principal and interest on the due dates as stipulated in paragraph #2 and page 3 of this document. Investment maturity dates are January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1. Borrower may prepay all or any part of the principal without penalty. This is an unsecured note. If this note is not paid in full when it becomes due, Borrower agrees to pay all collection costs. This Promissory Note & Payment Schedule and the Personal Loan Agreement are the entire agreements between the parties. These documents replace and supersede any and all oral agreements between the parties, as well as any prior writings. This agreement binds and benefits the heirs, successors and assignees of the parties. All non-legal notices must be in writing. A non-legal notice may be delivered to a party at the address that follows a party's signature or to a new address that a party designates in writing. A non-legal notice may be delivered: This agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the state of California. This agreement may be modified only by a writing signed by the party against whom such modification is sought to be enforced. If one party waives any term or provision of this agreement at any time, that waiver will be effective only for the specific instance and specific purpose for which the waiver was given. If either party fails to exercise or delays exercising any of its rights or remedies under this agreement, that party retains the right to enforce that term or provision at a later time. If any court determines that any provision of this agreement is invalid or unenforceable, any invalidity or unenforceability will affect only that provision and will not make any other provision of this agreement invalid or unenforceable and such provision shall be modified, amended or limited only to the extent necessary to render it valid and enforceable. If a dispute arises, either party may take the matter to court. BORROWER LENDER __________________________________ _______________________________________________ SAMPLE - PAYMENT SCHEDULE DUE TOTAL DUE PER SCHEDULE $ 10,729.86
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Get a free coffee out of it.
So this is a completely unsecured note and the borrower doesn't have any discernible assets you can encumber in case of a default.
I understand that this is a small amount ($10k), but you have virtually no recourse (that I can tell).
I would be extremely leery of someone borrowing money for a business, but the business has no physical address, no assets, and is working off of a "virtual" business model.
I would demand something in terms of security. If he bails on you, you'll bear the initial costs of suing him to recover your money and, even after you prevail in court, you'll have to track him down and enforce the judgment yourself. I've done that before and it's a bitch, believe me.
Okay, I went onto the website and looked this over. I've done a lot of work for the government and continue to do so. Everything is governed by FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulation) and CFR (Code of Federal Regulations), including the RFP process and how procurements are handled.
I find this whole process very suspicious, but I would start by asking if Starfire is registered with CCR.gov (Central Contractors Registry), which is where virtually every government contractor resides. My business is registered with CCR.gov and I have a DUNS number (Dun & Bradstreet) and a CAGE code (Commercial and Government Entity code). I would ask if they do as well.
If this company is legit and providing materials and services to either government agencies and/or contractors, then they will be registered on CCR.gov and have all the requisite certifications and codes.
They will also have a list of satisfied customers and testimonials (especially after all their years in business).
My business does blast engineering and Force Protection for anti-terrorism and we use all sorts of funky parts and materials systems, and this whole set up strikes me as just wrong. It doesn't feel right and I know quite a few specialty suppliers working for the government and NONE of them operate this way.
[quote=NeetaT]
This agreement will be construed to benefit the borrower. If a dispute arises, either party may take the matter to court. Borrower agrees that if any payment provided for in this Note is late, in default, or unpaid for at least 30 days, it would be impracticable or extremely difficult to fix the actual damages resulting to the Payee. Therefore, Borrower agrees to pay the Lender the sum of $500.00 on default, as liquidated damages and not as a penalty, to compensate the Lender for expenses of administering the default. . . . . . This agreement is solely between the borrower and the Steve Bartko dba as Starfire Technology.
[quote]
Don't do it. Those were some weird emails from a legit venture trying to raise capital.
I find this whole process very suspicious, but I would start by asking if Starfire is registered with CCR.gov (Central Contractors Registry), which is where virtually every government contractor resides. My business is registered with CCR.gov and I have a DUNS number (Dun & Bradstreet) and a CAGE code (Commercial and Government Entity code). I would ask if they do as well.
If this company is legit and providing materials and services to either government agencies and/or contractors, then they will be registered on CCR.gov and have all the requisite certifications and codes.
They will also have a list of satisfied customers and testimonials (especially after all their years in business).
My business does blast engineering and Force Protection for anti-terrorism and we use all sorts of funky parts and materials systems, and this whole set up strikes me as just wrong. It doesn't feel right and I know quite a few specialty suppliers working for the government and NONE of them operate this way.
I'm trying to figure out the accountability from a customer's perspective. Doesn't add up.
Damn, messed that up. That's my thoughts in the quotes. The other is from your contract.
I found some info on the internet...
Looks like it is a real business in San Marcos...
Lucky In OC
----------------
http://starfireus.com
STARFIRE TECHNOLOGY COMPANY
2071 Balboa Circle • Vista, CA 92081-8900
760-727-4411 • Fax: 760-727-4426
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/S...
Starfire Technology
423 Landmark Ct
San Marcos, CA 92069
760-727-4411
White Pages People Search:
Steven V Bartko
999 N Pacific St, Unit A220
Oceanside, CA 92054-2011
White Pages Reverse Lookup:
Starfire Technology
423 Landmark Ct
San Marcos, CA 92069-8112
(760) 727-4411
White Pages Reverse Lookup:
(760) 377-7015
Type: Land Line
Provider: Verizon
Location: Inyokern, CA
Google Search on Phone Number(760) 377-7015
3241 Sitio Montecillo, Carlsbad, CA 92009 - Zillow
Google Search on Phone Number 760-727-4411
http://us.loadedweb.com/cities/californi...
Kodiak Technology
, Vista, CA 92081 (760) 727-4411
Kodiak Technology
423 Landmark Ct, San Marcos, CA.
POWER OF THE PYRAMID!
"Have we received those guidance systems for the X-56 rockets from Starfire Technologies yet?"
"No sir, I called them and they said they were waiting to get working capital from some investors before they could buy or have the guidance systems made"
"Well any idea when we'll be getting the guidance systems then?"
"Starfire said they were meeting somebody for coffee today sir, so they might be able to buy or have the guidance systems made sometime next week if all goes well"
"O.K. then, keep me updated"
The note is unsecured.. which means only recourse is to sue the company if defaulted. You will not be able to sue Bartko because of corporate veil unless illegal conveyance is able to be proven (ie paying himself directly from a good portion of the 10,000)
One thing I am trying to figure out, is the business model.
1) Most Fortune 500 and smaller companies have their own purchasing department which do this work.
2) Most Fortune 500 and smaller companies prefer to work directly with the manufacturer (better control of product quality, quantity and delivery times).
3) Military/Aerospace companies tend to buy in bulk.. which is better done directly with the manufacturer.
4) If the 11 full time employees work from home tracking down ordered products, who manages the ordering, scheduling and bookeeping?
5) Why is there a 'double layer' of companies? ThunderBlaze acting as agent to 'Starfire'? It does make it harder to 'chase the money'.
6) If the sales and profits have grown in excess of 25%/yr for last 5 years, why doesn't the company have enough money for their own operating capital? They claim they 'repay' investors instead of sitting in a bank, but profits are above the costs of investor financing (after the investor has gotten their money back with interest)
Try something called a revolving line of credit.. at 24% annual, most banks would bite.
Leaving $70k.. that could have become operating capital... but where did it go? I could see some of it going to wages.. but not many people are needed to track just one order like this..
Yeah right.. he is behind at least one LLC.. which means his real liability is 0.
Just seems a bit fishy. I used to work at a defense contractor until I was laid off.. and I never heard of "Starfire"..
You can't be serious about this "investment". This is not how a legitimate company raises capital. Seriously - ask yourself why a longstanding, profitable company would need your $10,000?
Also, the business model is a joke. This is NOT how Fortune 500 companies make purchases. Their description of the RFP process is complete BS.
"No sir, I called them and they said they were waiting to get working capital from some investors before they could buy or have the guidance systems made"
"Well any idea when we'll be getting the guidance systems then?"
"Starfire said they were meeting somebody for coffee today sir, so they might be able to buy or have the guidance systems made sometime next week if all goes well"
"O.K. then, keep me updated"
WINNAR!
Sounds similar to this:
http://www.myvalleynews.com/story/38408/
Thanks, pri_dk
Below is a response by ThunderBlaze to the article.
http://www.myvalleynews.com/story/38408/
Hello:
Thank you for the article.
I'm sure that if you do some more research that you can find hundreds if not thousands of articles.
You can find the same about most banks and stocks.
When you are solely looking for the bad, you can always find it.
I would imagine that if I looked into whatever profession you are in that I could find negatives and reasons not to trust or utilize your business.
Luckily, Starfire is not a Ponzi scheme, it is not any of the persons in the article nor is it the same as the scheme in the article. Starfire is a legitimate business that utilizes investors.
It is your choice to invest or not.
From your sending this article, I presume that you are choosing not to invest.
If you want accurate information or facts in the future, do not hesitate to contact me.
Robert
For ThunderBlaze
NeetaT,
The fact that you are even corresponding with this guy has me concerned.
The proposal has all the classic characteristics of a ponzi scheme. Do not give your money to this guy.
Once you've been ripped off, there is no recourse. The cops won't go after him -- they will just tell you to sue, which won't be worth the trouble.
The fact that you are even corresponding with this guy has me concerned.
The proposal has all the classic characteristics of a ponzi scheme. Do not give your money to this guy.
Once you've been ripped off, there is no recourse. The cops won't go after him -- they will just tell you to sue, which won't be worth the trouble.
I concur...Please I hope you're just taking this as a joke, like the stuff I sometimes do with the Nigerian scammers.
If not, I have more creative ways for your to lose your money. Why don't we just trade cars. Your carrera s (assuming it's a late model) for my slightly modified audi...I'll even throw in a lightly driven c320 along with it.
Government (military) contracts just don't work this way.
Deleted by Doofrat
Robert,
Let's say this is a real investment opportunuty. Can we see the contracts to verify the legitamacy of the investment?
If not why would someone invest $10,000+ into a company that has no transparancy?
Get the guy to sign a personal guarantee as any bank would do so in today's market.
I smell a big rat.
Of the black-and-white striped kind.
I work for Fortune 500 company and we don't buy our stuff through a one-horse intermediary, we buy direct from the producers.
I agree with the other posters... smells like a S.C.A.M.
NeetaT, I think I said this to you before on another thread, but you seem unusually susceptible to scammers. I really hope you are careful. I don't want to read one day how you lost most of your savings.
Write 100 times on the blackboard:
THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH
Safe investing to you.
I've been looking at this topic almost since it was originally posted.
Does anyone except me see problems with the posts?
I ask purely because whenever I read through the comments here I see a lot of sweeping generalizations and statements but little in the way of facts or evidence or even an implication of experience or knowledge or background.
My father used a proverb, "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."
Has anyone invested with ThunderBlaze?
Has anyone personally talked with ThunderBlaze?
Does anyone who posted here know what they are talking about? Does anyone have any facts or is it all opinion?
Just because you know nothing about the investment doesn't make it wrong, bad or not legitimate.
The NeetaT person obviously communicated and posts information that he/she got from ThunderBlaze. There are agreements and basic information about an investment. Simple documents without a lot of legaleeze. I don't see anything tricky or not legitimate in these documents. These documents are straightforward and very simple, not legaleeze.
NeetaT seems like he/she knows as much about investing as I know about Porsche cars (which is nothing). NeetaT has his/her mind made up even before posting, as do most of the posters and comments.
I have some investing knowledge from my 30 years of being a financial advisor.
Allen says to "demand something in terms of security". All well and good, but that is not what the investment entails. Allen wants to re-make the investment. I'll presume that the investment is what is presented. Starfire doesn't seem desperate for investors so I imagine that you either invest according to their terms or you don't invest. Simple!
Allen says, "you have virtually no recourse (that I can tell)" The note says, " Investment accepted as a personal loan to Steve Bartko dba Starfire Technology". Bartko is therefore personally responsible for the loan. If Bartko doesn't pay, you can sue him and get everything that he has. There is no corporate shield. The paperwork provides that if you sue and win you get your attorney's fees and damages. So, there is recourse. Does anyone here know what they are talking about? Read, Read, Read!!!
Alan further says " I know quite a few specialty suppliers working for the government and none of them operate this way". Obviously this supplier does operate this way. Not everyone is the same.
LuckyinOc found the business address and location. So the business does exist.
ucodegen says, " You will not be able to sue Bartko because of corporate veil." Ucodegen talks like an attorney, but he's not! He is totally wrong. There is no corporate veil. Why doesn't anyone read? The note says, " Investment accepted as a personal loan to Steve Bartko dba Starfire Technology". Read, Read, Read!!! See where it says, "personal". No corporate veil. Personal liability! Personal means Personal!!!
Ucodegen then goes on to talk like an expert: See 1,2,3,4,5,6 of Ucodegen's reply. Every business is different. What one business does and finds advantageous, another finds disadvantageous. The funniest thing; ucodegen quotes the agreement, "The owner of Starfire personally guarantees the investment and signs all documents." Then ucodegen says, "he is behind at least one LLC.. which means his real liability is 0" I repeat, READ, READ, READ!!! The documents specify that Bartko is PERSONALLY responsible! READ!!! UNDERSTAND!!! Use facts, use evidence! Everything here is personal opinion without any fact!
Ucodegen then, in his last sentence makes me understand where he is coming from, "I used to work at a defense contractor until I was laid off." Maybe there is a reason why he was laid off? He was an employee for a contractor, and now a laid off employee.
JustLurking chimes in with his/her expert opinion. Expert at what? Again, every business operates differently and what works for one, doesn't work for another. And neither is good or bad. Facts anyone?
Pri_dk sends an article.
ThunderBlaze responds, "When you are solely looking for the bad, you can always find it.
... it is not any of the persons in the article ... Starfire is a legitimate business that utilizes investors. It is your choice to invest or not." ThunderBlaze isn't pushing an investment and it seems that it doesn't even care if you invest or not.
Wshuponastr wants to see contracts. Why would any business give their contracts and business information out? Does Wshuponastr want to give out their tax returns to everyone they invest with or might invest with?
Ariffee22 wants a personal guarantee. Read, Read, Read. The owner of Starfire gives a personal guarantee!!!
CricketOnTheHearth seems to base his opinions on his nose. You buy perfume and cook based upon your nose. Investments should be purchased based on fact and information. This person says that they are employed by a Fortune 500 company. Emphasize employee. How one company purchases products isn't necessarily how another purchases and each product purchase would also be different. It's wonderful to generalize, but come on folks; Let's get some actual information and facts!
Everyone here has their opinions but they act like the experts that they are not. Invest or don't invest, but do your own research. Is the investment legitimate, no-one here knows either! No one found anything negative or bad, and that itself is very, very, very positive. Don't you find it amusing that everyone has something negative to say, but there are no facts or specifics or evidence to back up their opinions. No-one found anything negative! But they all have negative opinions!
If you actually have any money to invest and if you actually wanted information, wouldn't the best place to go to be ThunderBlaze itself. Do you realize that here you are getting opinions from "noses"?
This might be an awesome investment, and then again, it might not be. If it is as presented, it is awsome!
The only way you'll find out if the investment is as awesome as is presented is to make an investment in it. If it's bad, you might lose your money, but you'll make complaints and then the complaints would be available to find. Since no one found anything negative, maybe no one has had any bad experiences with the investment and the investment is legitimate. I find it amazing that no one found any complaints or anything at all bad, but you all are knocking the investment. Just think, what if the investment is as good as presented and you're losing the opportunity to double your money in three years. As Shakespeare says, and I paraphrase; Oh, what fools these posters be!
Your question to ask of me is: If I know so much why am I not investing in this company? I might be, but I'd never tell you and even if I did tell you, you wouldn't believe me. Your minds are made up, why would I want to confuse you with facts?
Anyone can post and say either good or bad about the investment. No one would ever know if they had facts or information or just "noses". Maybe, the owner of this web site should check out Starfire.
Again, it's like asking me my expert opinion about Porsche's. You'll get a worthless opinion!!!
Sarah
Just a couple of thoughts on your points...
If you actually have any money to invest and if you actually wanted information, wouldn't the best place to go to be ThunderBlaze itself. Do you realize that here you are getting opinions from "noses"?
When I invest not only do I look at information provided by the company - I look at outside information about the company. I also look at the structure of the company and whether I am comfortable with that structure. Sometimes the structure makes me uncomfortable - so I don't invest in it. If someone asks my opinion, I'll give them my opinion - including if I think it's got inherant risk or is doing things in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
This might be an awesome investment, and then again, it might not be. If it is as presented, it is awsome!
The only way you'll find out if the investment is as awesome as is presented is to make an investment in it.
If my only means to determine if an investment is "awesome" is to risk money, then I'll sit on the sidelines. I prefer to do due dilligence before investing. I'm not that unusual.
If it's bad, you might lose your money, but you'll make complaints and then the complaints would be available to find. Since no one found anything negative, maybe no one has had any bad experiences with the investment and the investment is legitimate.
I strongly disagree with this statement. Here's an example of doing business with a company that did not have any complaints against it.
I hired a contractor who turned out, I learned after the fact, to have a business model of ripping people off. I did my due dilligence - I'd checked his license status, I'd called the references he supplied, I googled him, I checked to see if there were lawsuits filed against him... I checked him out as thoroughly as I could. There were NO dings on his license or complaints against him. It turns out that complaints HAD been filed against him with the state, but the CSLB hadn't processed them yet. We later filed a very thorough, documented complaint against him and it took a year before it showed on the CSLB website and is still waiting to be prosecuted by the AG's office.
Just because a business doesn't have a complaint against it - doesn't mean it's legitimate.
Additionally - I have done my best to get complaints agains him. I've written complaints against him with Kudzu, ServiceMasters, etc. Any website that lists his business - I filed a complaint against him. Only the kudzu one shows. It is VERY hard to get complaints posted on these sites that advertize businesses. Trust me, I have tried.
It is naive to think that just because you can't find a public complaint, that the business is legitimate and that no one has tried to post/publish/file a complaint.
Granted investing is different than hiring a contractor - but they both involve a lot of money changing hands...
NeetaT asked for opinions and people gave them. Just as you gave yours.
Sarah - you asked for facts? How about public records? I did a quick google search for Steve V. Bartko. Interestingly, he has NO web presence for anything related to his business. But, I did find a pdf from First American Title showing his purchase of a 1bd/1ba condo in Oceanside in 2007 (for $550k no less!). Then I did a quick search at the county assessor site to see that he has not paid his property taxes on that property. Just the kind of person you would feel confident about their "personal guarantee".
I suggest you do your own "research". The info above took about 3 minutes to find.
@Sarah G
Sweet.. personal attacks to prove your point. The fact that you resorted to this several times with different people on the board wrt this post indicates that your logic is weak and you have to resort to personal attacks to press your point. It is also interesting that you created your account about 4 days and 20 hours before making this post.
--
As for wrong.. lets go to your major point.. the 'personal guarantee'. Do you know what 'DBA' stands for? It means 'Doing Business As'. Therefore Investment accepted as a personal loan to Steve Bartko dba Starfire Technology actually reads Investment accepted as a personal loan to Steve Bartko doing business as Starfire Technology. This one sentence does two things;
1) Indicates that wherever the name 'Steve Bartko' is in the document, it is to be read as the entity 'Starfire Technology'. This shortens the sentence above to 'Investment accepted as a personal loan to Starfire Technology.'
2) It also indicates that 'Steve Bartko' represents the corporate entity 'Starfire Technology'.
The sentence that you take as meaning that 'Steve Bartko' is personally responsible literally states that there is a corporate veil between 'Steve Bartko' and 'Starfire Technology', and your business dealings are with 'Starfire Technology'.
True but there are some basic things that will guide companies, particularly those that deal with the government.
1) They will not throw away a 24% risk free rate of return. If it was truly 0 risk, then contractors would even create a sub-division with the sole purpose of lending money to 'Starfire Technology' to get that 24% risk free return.
2) There are CMMI level 3 and ISO 9000 certification requirements for government sub-contractors, dictated through the contract vehicle/document. Saw no such cert either way I looked at them (their website or cert agencies).
All the companies that I have worked for, have purchasing departments whose responsibility is to locate products and getting the best price. They do this for several reasons.. including quality control. If a supplier/manufacturer has a history poor delivery, delivery of non-working product, sub-par or non-compliant product.. the purchasing department will black-list that supplier/manufacturer. In addition, a company like Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, BAE, L-3 will have much more leverage over a supplier than some small middleman.
So far, my items 1-6 have not been refuted.. or even a real attempt to refute.
As for;
I agree with UCGal and I am quite surprised that a CFA with 30 years experience would say something like that.
Thunderblaze is not a name I would trust.
But Sarah is such a pretty name...I think we should trust her.
Are you thinking yet?
I find it sad that people don't think.
First, I want to thank pri_dk for the compliment.
UCGal: If someone asks for opinion, it's best to give opinion based upon facts.
Everyone has their own tolerance for risk and everyone has their own method of deciding whether an investment is for them. That's why there are so many varied investments. What's right for one person is not necessarily right for another. Some people didn't like Microsoft or Intel or Berkshire when then first learned about them. They were right for some and not right for others. It's your choice.
I'm sorry about your contractor problem, but they are not the same. And your contractor problem has nothing to do with Starfire. You're comparing apples to bowling balls. You're right on one point, just because there are no complaints doesn't make it a good investment. But the fact that there are no complaints is a very, very positive sign.
Ucodegen: Please get facts. The contract states that there is a personal guarantee. dba simply means that a person or entity is utilizing an assumed name. It has nothing to do with a corporation or LLC or a corporate veil. I'd suggest that you consult with an attorney before you continue to make un-true statements. And yes, Bartko seems to be doing business under other names. So what. He also says that he will personally sign the promissory note! If anyone questions this fact, ask when you invest, that the promissory note be personally signed by Bartko (as he says he will do). I'd suggest that if anyone questions this, that they ask their attorney whether or not this is a personal promissory note. Ucodegen doesn't know what he's talking about!
Ucodegen makes broad, generalized statements without any facts or specific information.
To "refute" 1-6:
1. I'm sure that Ucodegen has no knowledge of what every Fortune 500 companies do. Every company is different. Starfire says that it is very specialized and has been in business for 35 years and has specialized contacts. What one company does, another does differently.
2. Again, a broad, generalized statement without anything to back it up. See my #1.
3. Again, a broad, generalized statement without anything to back it up. Starfire states that it is a very specialized company and it deals with very specialized parts and products.
4. Maybe the owner either does the ordering, scheduling and bookkeeping or hires someone to do this. If you read the web site, you'd see that there are only 15 to 20 outstanding contracts at any time. Maybe in the 35 years that the owner has been in this business, he's learned how to be efficient.
5. Bartko, Starfire's owner personally signs and guarantees the promissory note. What's hard about this?
6. Maybe they have enough money to do everything themselves. Maybe Bartko would rather deal with a real person than a bank. Maybe Bartko doesn't like to deal with banks. Who knows.
But, why would I even want to refute Ucodegen 1-6. All of these statements are generalized, unsubstantiated and unsupoorted. Again, this is how Starfire does business, and it works for them. Starfire doesn't have to be like every business that Ucodegen has worked at!
Ucodegen has his/her opinions, but there are no facts.
I'm glad that Ucodegen has worked for so many companies and that he has so much experience. BUT; maybe Starfire, it it's 35 years, has made contacts and has knowledge and information that makes it useful to utilize. If all companies were as Ucodegen presents, Starfire wouldn't be in business today!
Every business is different.
Invest or don't invest. Personally, I don't care. But utilize facts. Don't make unsubstantiated generalizations and don't mislead. If you question whether or not there is a personal guarantee and personal liability to Bartko, ask them or ask your attorney.
What should you do when you invest? Diversify.
There isn't a right or wrong.
I can take either side and play devil's advocate. But again, it doesn't make this a good or bad investment. If, it is as presented, it might be a spectacular investment. Other than opinion here, there are no facts that are negative. Unless you invest, you won't know if it is good and you won't know if it is bad. If you have facts, knowledge and feel comfortable, invest or don't invest. But make a decision based upon fact and knowledge not unsubstantiated opinion.
Lastly: Use your own opinion and especially utilize facts. If you are interested in the investment. Contact them. That's the only way you'll get "good" information and fact. You won't learn anything here from posters that have opinion and no fact.
Sarah G.
Hey Sarah, er. I mean Steve...or should I call you "Mr. Barkto?"
Give it up.
What should you do when you invest? Diversify.
There isn't a right or wrong.
I can take either side and play devil's advocate. But again, it doesn't make this a good or bad investment. If, it is as presented, it might be a spectacular investment. Other than opinion here, there are no facts that are negative. Unless you invest, you won't know if it is good and you won't know if it is bad. If you have facts, knowledge and feel comfortable, invest or don't invest. But make a decision based upon fact and knowledge not unsubstantiated opinion.
Lastly: Use your own opinion and especially utilize facts. If you are interested in the investment. Contact them. That's the only way you'll get "good" information and fact. You won't learn anything here from posters that have opinion and no fact.
Sarah G.
I think one of the issues here is the lack of supporting facts. Your advise seems to be "invest and hope". You admit you can't confirm it's an "awesome" or "spectacular" investment until you put money at risk.
As others have pointed out - the business model seems very non-traditional for procurement for fortune 500 companies. I can't speak to all fortune 500 companies - only the one I work for... this isn't the way things are done here. That is a fact.
When NeetaT asked for documentation she was told they didn't have any. (Read the OP.)
My point about the contractor was simple. You can enter a business arrangement (with starblaze, with a contractor, ...) have clearly defined documents and have one side fail to perform and worse. You seem to suggest that if there are no complaints out there - you should assume the other party in the business arrangement is on the Up and Up. My experience shows this to be a bad assumption. Apples and bowling balls - it's all business transactions.
I find it sad that people don't think...
5. Bartko, Starfire's owner personally signs and guarantees the promissory note. What's hard about this?...
Other than opinion here, there are no facts that are negative.
Sarah G.
A personal guarantee from someone in default on their property taxes? Being in default on a financial obligation is not a negative fact? The default IS a fact and not an opinion. The problem, "Sarah", is that people here DO think. They think that this is a scam and that Steve Bartko is a scammer whose "personal guarantee" is not worth the paper it is signed on. Maybe someone with more time than I have will search the NODs for Steve's Oceanside condo. I'll bet you a 24% return that he is no longer paying that mortgage. Another sign of a person of stellar character that you would gladly loan money to.