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Go East, young man? Californians look for the exitUser Forum Topic
Submitted by hipmatt on January 12, 2009 - 6:48pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/ap_o... LOS ANGELES – Mike Reilly spent his lifetime chasing the California dream. This year he's going to look for it in Colorado. With a house purchase near Denver in the works, the 38-year-old engineering contractor plans to move his family 1,200 miles away from his home state's lemon groves, sunshine and beaches. For him, years of rising taxes, dead-end schools, unchecked illegal immigration and clogged traffic have robbed the Golden State of its allure. Is there something left of the California dream? "If you are a Hollywood actor," Reilly says, "but not for us." Since the days of the Gold Rush, California has represented the Promised Land, an image celebrated in the songs of the Beach Boys and embodied by Silicon Valley's instant millionaires and the young men and women who achieve stardom in Hollywood. But for many California families last year, tomorrow started somewhere else. The number of people leaving California for another state outstripped the number moving in from another state during the year ending on July 1, 2008. California lost a net total of 144,000 people during that period — more than any other state, according to census estimates. That is about equal to the population of Syracuse, N.Y. The state with the next-highest net loss through migration between states was New York, which lost just over 126,000 residents. California's loss is extremely small in a state of 38 million. And, in fact, the state's population continues to increase overall because of births and immigration, legal and illegal. But it is the fourth consecutive year that more residents decamped from California for other states than arrived here from within the U.S. A losing streak that long hasn't happened in California since the recession of the early 1990s, when departures outstripped arrivals from other states by 362,000 in 1994 alone. In part because of the boom in population in other Western states, California could lose a congressional seat for the first time in its history. Why are so many looking for an exit? Among other things: California's unemployment rate hit 8.4 percent in November, the third-highest in the nation, and it is expected to get worse. A record 236,000 foreclosures are projected for 2008, more than the prior nine years combined, according to research firm MDA DataQuick. Personal income was about flat last year. With state government facing a $41.6 billion budget hole over 18 months, residents are bracing for higher taxes, cuts in education and postponed tax rebates. A multibillion-dollar plan to remake downtown Los Angeles has stalled, and office vacancy rates there and in San Diego and San Jose surpass the 10.2 percent national average. Median housing prices have nose-dived one-third from a 2006 peak, but many homes are still out of reach for middle-class families. Some small towns are on the brink of bankruptcy. Normally recession-proof Hollywood has been hit by layoffs. "You see wages go down and the cost of living go up," Reilly says. His property taxes will be $1,300 in Colorado, down from $4,300 on his three-bedroom house in Nipomo, about 80 miles up the coast from Santa Barbara. California's obituary has been written before — "California: The Endangered Dream" was the title of a 1991 Time magazine cover story. The Golden State and its huge economy — by itself, the eighth-largest in the world — have shown resilience, weathering the aerospace bust, the dot-com crash and an energy crunch in recent years. But this time, the news just keeps getting worse. A state board halted lending for about 2,000 public works projects in California worth more than $16 billion because the state could not afford them. A report by Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., last month said the state lost 100,000 jobs in the last year and the erosion of home prices eliminated over $1 trillion in wealth. "I don't think the California dream, per se, is over. It has become and will continue to become grittier," says New America Foundation senior fellow Gregory Rodriguez. "Now, perhaps, we have to reassess the California of our imagination." Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is among those who say the state needs to create itself anew, rebuilding roads, schools and transit. "We've lived off the investments our parents made in the '50s and '60s for a long time," says Tim Hodson, director of the Center for California Studies at California State University, Sacramento. "We're somewhat in the position of a Rust Belt state in the 1970s." Financial adviser Barry Hartz lived in California for 60 years and once ran for state Assembly before relocating with his wife last year to Colorado Springs, Colo., where his son's family had moved. "The saddest thing I saw was the escalation of home prices to the point our kids, when they got married, could not live in the community where they lived and grew up," Hartz says. "Some people call that progress."
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I think once the ICE Thaws back east enough to get the car out of the snow bank that trend may reverse some, over the long term I think the trend will still be the other direction (inbound).
Even with this outbound flow we still gained population.
When housing prices come down another 10%-20% into a "normal" range of price-to-rent and the credit crisis eases up - yup, could be another two years - folks will start moving to CA again. The weather hasn't gone anywhere. The problem all along has been the cost of living, the biggest portion of which is housing prices. Once that rights itself I think in-migration will return, albeit slowly. But for the last 5-6 years, frankly, it didn't make any economic sense for folks to move here and buy a house. That's not sustainable.
People will move to where they can work. If the weather's nice, that's all the better. But it's not the driving factor.
This is *great* news.
My job isn't going anywhere. The more folks leave the higher my quality of life gets.
Is there any way we can keep them from coming back?
My job isn't going anywhere. The more folks leave the higher my quality of life gets.
Is there any way we can keep them from coming back?
And that's the problem. I grew up in CA and moved away as a young adult, but the folks I know who've done it in recent years seem miserable, and seem to be divided into those who moved back and those who wish they could move back. While the housing bubble took it to absurd heights, California is worth paying a bit more for. That said, I'll take my cheap cost of living and great schools, and hope that I can get my car in the ice-covered driveway tomorrow morning.
Whenever I think of moving back I remember those days of warming my car key with a lighter before pushing it through the layer of ice over my frozen lock.
That and the fact that NJ/NYC are even more f*cked than we are!
Sharp cold wave shocks upper Midwest, temps to -36
Rain and melting snow bring floods to Washington State
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...
Well there is always Florida, just keep an ear open for Hurricane and tornado warning sirens etc…
My kids would love me to death if I would move back to the shores of Lake Erie. They could care less about the cold.
Problem is dad needs a job where he makes good money so if we are going to be stuck away from Ohio, SD is not a bad place to be. Damn niched skills.
I was never really employed there (meaning a local company). When I moved back to Ohio it was because I was in professional services and could live anywhere I wanted, so having my kids get to know grandparents was a great decision. Once that PS career option dried up (and I tired of travel) I had to leave. My niche is not really used out there.
CardiffBaseball, you parents don't want to retire in Florida? There are good housing deals down there.
I moved away, to Colorado in June of 07. Bought a brand new great big house for under $300K.
Moved back here in Sept 08 even though I knew it would be a financial challenge.
Hard to put a cost on quality of life, even if that is utterly subjective and individual. I just like it here better. Many others will disagree.
Most of my friends and I are in CA because of our jobs, not because of weather...
If job is good, then I probably can enjoy snow in NE
Born and raised in SCal. Have moved away twice and am probably not coming back.I live in the low cost, southeast, SCar to be exact and the family loves it. I have 3-4 hours more per day of family time, housing costs still less than half for twice as much, half the taxes, lowest cost of gas. only use one fourth as much gasoline anyways as we live 4 miles from my work. Wife stays home, had to work in Cali to pay the house payments, private school tuition and taxes. now with lower cost of living we pay for an even better private school. Use to have 1.6% taxes with mello-roos, here it is 0.6% range. state taxes are 4-5%, sales tax is 5%. salary is as high or higher for MSME engineer+MBA.
So more and better family time, no traffic, low cost of living, same pay, Safe, low/no crime, beach 3 hours away (80°F water temp), mtns 30 minutes (more like hills), snow skiing 2 hours away, all the outside sports nearly year round (9-10 months), no snow to speak of....4 seasons, green trees as far as you can see, ...not such a bad life. In fact, better than most! Only drawback is its a little sticky in the summer, spring and fall match SOCAL weather, winter is sometimes cooler.
visited Socal for Xmas, liked the family, hated the traffic. lots of new buses everywhere, what does this mean? Looks like a dichotomy of rich and poor with minimal middle class, who are leaving, or dreaming of such.
Think of me when you are on the freeways on Sunday and bumper to bumper!
StevenO
I don't think they do because they have young grand-kids and friends still there. They are only 60 and still do some odd-jobs (office cleaning) to pick up spending money but they really don't have the means to be flying back and forth to visit anyone.
If I won the lotto I'd rather move people out here but everyone else would rather go back. Go figure. My wife isn't even from there but she really got attached in our brief 6 year stay.
In any case my goals are just to stay employed for the next 5-6 years and I have no reason to resign and go into some unknown situation so I am staying put.
Temps drop to -40
A shocking cold wave plummets temperatures to levels cold enough to freeze flesh in 10 minutes.
Now that's cold !!!
We've been doing MUCH better since we moved to Wichita 6 months ago (See Kelly's story on us at voiceofsandiego.org under "Lure of Wichita").
We got a brand new 5 bdrm/3 bath house on 18,000 sq. ft. lot for $209K. Yes, we did have 2 mornings with icy roads. But the day after Christmas it was so warm I was riding the motorcycle around. So overall, things are much better after leaving San Diego.
There are advantages and disadvantages to everywhere you live.
I'm a San Diego native. I moved out during the last big outpouring in 1990. So many Californians were moving to Washington state there was a big pushback. I then moved to the east coast, Philly area. I had a brief detour to Atlanta, hated it, and moved back to Philly. We moved back to San Diego in 2001.
Houses were cheaper in WA and Philly. Jobs were similar. Cultures were different...
I like cold - but hate the humid summers of the east coast and the south. Perhaps I'm in the minority about that. San Diego has great summer weather... practically year round. But it's a lot more expensive. If we hadn't had lots of equity from selling 2 homes back east, to put down a healthy down payment, I'd have moved back just to find affordable housing. It's hard to get started in the housing market here if a 20% downpayment is over $100k.
If your criteria for where you live is based on affordability - SoCal is not your spot. Neither is the bay area, NYC, DC metro...
"We got a brand new 5 bdrm/3 bath house on 18,000 sq. ft. lot for $209K"
You could probably do that in Temecula valley(maybe a bit more money say 25K more, and a little smaller lot, maybe you would have to paint the place and do some yard work as well).
But then you would have to admit you lived in Temecula and were a whole 35 minutes from the pacific ocean.
On second thought it's just not worth it !!!
We got a brand new 5 bdrm/3 bath house on 18,000 sq. ft. lot for $209K. Yes, we did have 2 mornings with icy roads. But the day after Christmas it was so warm I was riding the motorcycle around. So overall, things are much better after leaving San Diego.
Wichita is a good affordable place to live. If you have a good job and a nice house close to work, then even better. Children won't get into trouble. More wholesome place for a family.
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/...
Temperatures crashed to Arctic levels Tuesday as a severe cold wave rolled across the upper Midwest on the heels of yet another snowstorm, closing schools and making most people think twice before going outside.
Thermometers read single digits early in the day as far south as Kansas and Missouri, where some areas warmed only into the teens by midday.
A 51-year-old man in northern Wisconsin died from exposure after wandering from his Hayward home early Tuesday, authorities said. His son reported him missing and said he was prone to sleepwalking, and deputies followed footprints in the snow to find the man about 190 yards from his house, Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said.
... At about 8 a.m., temperatures were minus 40 in International Falls and minus 35 in Roseau. Farther south, Minneapolis hit 18 below zero with a wind chill of 32 below and black ice was blamed for numerous accidents.
In neighboring North Dakota, Grand Forks dropped to a record low of 37 below zero Tuesday morning, lopping six degrees off the old record set in 1979, the National Weather Service said.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2...
The majority of my family lives in the Dakotas or in Minn. They dont mind the cold nearly as much as people here; or the news lets on. Hell, I remember only a few years ago a phone call from my uncle who was complaining it was too warm in January, it was in the low 40's and maybe high 20's at night. They had no snow, no frost, and no ice on the ground. They wanted the cold because it helps control the pests in the summer (they are farmers). It also helps shore up the fields and shallow stream beds, makes better hunting weather. (yes, they like of those things there.)
Plus I dont like this weather we have right now. It is January, it should be alittle cold and rainy. We need the water badly and alittle variation in the weather helps us appreciate the good times. Plus if this weather keeps up we will have a tinderbox again and come September people in the midwest and NE enjoying a beautiful fall will turn on the TV and see half a million people being evacuated from firestorms and wonder who the hell wants to live in Southern CA.
50% chance that water rationing will start this spring in SD. Source: KPBS
Delta smelt: 1 Humans: 0
Delta smelt: 1 Humans: 0
Golf Courses 1 Poor Humans 0
I was just talking to the checkout guy in trader joes last month and he says produce prices are going to rise significantly because of water rationing to the farms in central california.
Golf Courses 1 Poor Humans 0
Yea the wife says either plant something we can eat or get fake grass.