Elections Tuesday

User Forum Topic
Submitted by CardiffBaseball on November 4, 2009 - 12:08pm

Anyone drawing any conclusions from the results in VA and NJ yesterday? 18% Rep. win in VA and 5% in NJ.

I can't imagine they are celebrating this in the White House. Will this cause the same centrist 180-degree turn that Dick Morris engineered for Clinton? (well maybe 90-120 degree anyway).

Submitted by Huckleberry on November 4, 2009 - 12:44pm.

This puts a major dent in Obama's plan for big gov't and big spending. Especially the healthcare initiative!

This will start the movement of gov't gridlock.

Obama (and his administration) is on his way to being dead in the water.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 1:00pm.

I'm disappointed that the Democrats lost especially in New Jersey.

Virginia was a toss up.

I'm happy that the Democrats won in upstate New York where Palin and Limbaugh were not successful at keeping the district conservative.

We are seeing how the social conservatives are tearing apart the Republican party. Pretty soon it won't be but a party of ranting religious Bible thumpers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/nyregi...

The battle became one of the most closely followed races in the nation, drawing in some of the biggest forces in politics in both parties. Republicans who viewed the race as a test of the party’s most deeply held conservative principles — including Sarah Palin, the former governor of Alaska; Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, a presidential hopeful; and grass-roots groups that have forcefully opposed Democratic economic and health care policies — rallied behind Mr. Hoffman.

The finger pointing among Republicans started on Wednesday morning. Some conservatives were blaming the Republican Party for the loss, saying that if they had supported a more conservative candidate all along, the seat could have been won.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 1:03pm.

Huckleberry wrote:
This puts a major dent in Obama's plan for big gov't and big spending. Especially the healthcare initiative!

The governors' races do not affect the Obama agenda. Only a significant change in Congress will derail his agenda.

If the Republican governors implement drastic spending cuts that bring pain to the people of VA and NJ, voters will go for whoever proposes pork the next time around.

During an economic crisis, Republicans can't afford to be fiscally conservative. So they'll fall back on the Bible thumping.

Submitted by Casca on November 4, 2009 - 1:04pm.

Brian, you're still an idiot, although perhaps a calculating one.

New Jersey was HUGE, since the D's have an incredible vote stealing machine there. They steal around ten percent, so Crist really won big. Nevermind the 7% of disaffected D's that voted for the stalking horse on the ticket. Were he not there, they'd have broken for Crist, and it would have been even bigger.

The NY congressional race is almost meaningless, except that instead of having a RINO that holds the seat for life, we have a D who will hold it for half of a term. There are at least a dozen republicans in that district giddy with glee over their prospects come next Spring.

Fobbing off VA as a wash is simply whistling past the graveyard. But I'm happy, if you're happy doing that. If our illegal alien el presidente simply holds course, 2012 will be epic.

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on November 4, 2009 - 1:07pm.

Brian your analysis is pretty shallow and weak regarding bible thumping. If the majority of voters in VA pull the GOP lever, does that make them a bunch of Palin/Limbaugh groupies? Even if that were the case, why weren't they last year at this time?

Are you denying the drastic dash to the center/right of Bill Clinton to save his presidency? Does Obama need to do the same?

What you might be failing to grasp is that 2008 might have simply been Bush fatigue, Bush protest etc. rather than a mandate to create an EU style socialist mecca.

Submitted by Arraya on November 4, 2009 - 1:18pm.

I can't imagine why an ex-Goldman Sachs employee was not re-elected. Especially, when GS is collecting 1 million a month on defunct bonds from the NJ taxpayer.

http://blogs.app.com/politicspatrol/2009...

Other than that have fun thinking there is a difference everybody.

There all in it together.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 1:18pm.

Casca wrote:
2012 will be epic.

There will be a GDP and jobs recovery by 2012. Obama will get re-elected.

If you are hoping otherwise, you'd better hope for more economic and real estate pain. I don't think that your Republican real-estate-industry friends in San Diego have the wherewithal to last through 2012. Right now, they need a recovery to save their hides.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 1:23pm.

Arraya wrote:
I can't imagine why an ex-Goldman Sachs employee was not re-elected. Especially, when GS is collecting 1 million a month on defunct bonds from the NJ taxpayer.

http://blogs.app.com/politicspatrol/2009...

Other than that have fun thinking there is a difference everybody.

There all in it together.

I was wondering the same thing.

In my opinion, there is a difference. Not an economic difference but a social difference.

I just find all the religious crap a big turn off. But I do think that we need fiscal responsibility. If those two Republican governors can bring fiscal health back to their states, then my hat's off to them.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on November 4, 2009 - 1:26pm.

Brian,
It is the Democrat party that is being torn apart by the left wing wackos, who are dragging down the more moderate, labor, blue collar, etc. members of the party. Obama lost big, not Rush, a rich entertainer and Palin, a retired politician. He lost the independents. It is all down hill from here unless he moves to the center where he campaigned from. They are already putting off the health care bill because they do not have the votes. You remain delusional. As Barney Frank once said, "What planet are you from?" You need to get out more. The air in your basement is not good for you. In 2010, all bets are off.

P.S. Maybe the R. Governors will build more Walmarts!

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 1:49pm.

We shall see in 2010....

I was an Obama supporter from the beginning when the majority didn't give him a chance of even beating Hillary. So guess who has more prescience?

I now see two wings of the Republican party.

1) The wing is that more inclusive that made a Black man, Michael Steele, chairman of the RNC. That can't be too pleasing to the Southern voters. We now have a Black president and Black Republican chief. That's real progress in my opinion.

2) The radical wings of "real" Americans who support Palin and Limbaugh. Those people don't have any political philosophy at all. They are just conservative ranters who don't even understand what they are ranting about.

I would love to see a Palin/Limbaugh ticket. That will be too fun to watch.

The NJ and VA Republican governors are centrists so I don't mind so much. We can use more Republican Governors like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 1:55pm.

Enjoy. This is now the Chief and face of the Republican
party.

Michael SteeleMichael Steele

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on November 4, 2009 - 2:47pm.

JC Watts could've done whatever he wanted, he chose to get out of politics. Black Republicans are all over. Hell I am guessing Lt. Col. Earl Woods and son Eldrick were not and are not sucking at the tit of Sharpton.

Be black, be conservative, just don't be a spend-spend-spend liberal like Bush became.

Ever read any Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams?

Submitted by Arraya on November 4, 2009 - 2:58pm.

National Debt: Obama is spending money like a republican...National Debt: Obama is spending money like a republican...

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on November 4, 2009 - 3:09pm.

So you see that curve going down once the contract with america was fully embraced by Clinton?

Gridlock=Good

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 3:18pm.

I have no problem with Black Republicans. To me it's a great sign of social progress.

I think someone asked that question before: what is "conservative"? How far back do we go back to "conserve".

If anything, the election of Obama caused the Republicans to rethink their leadership and become more progressive.

I'd like so see more politicians who are socially progressive/liberal and fiscally prudent and restrained.

It looks like there is a "civil war" within the Republican party now. Which faction will win? Time will tell...

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 3:24pm.

Arraya wrote:
Obama is spending money like a republican.

I think that Carter's biggest mistake was not spending.

Rather than talk about "malaise" and sacrifice he should have spent and spent. And he would have gotten reelected.

Reagan would then have faced harder choices.

All Reagan did was make Americans feel good about being cowboys while giving out government largess (defense pork, etc...)

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 4, 2009 - 3:50pm.

CardiffBaseball wrote:
JC Watts could've done whatever he wanted, he chose to get out of politics. Black Republicans are all over. Hell I am guessing Lt. Col. Earl Woods and son Eldrick were not and are not sucking at the tit of Sharpton.

Be black, be conservative, just don't be a spend-spend-spend liberal like Bush became.

Ever read any Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams?

Cardiff: Sowell, Williams, Elder et al are not "real" blacks according to the Leftists/Democrats. Note their vilification and character assassination of conservative blacks like Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas and their use of terms like "Uncle Tom" to describe them.

If the cartoons of Condi Rice by Jeff Danziger, Pat Oliphant and Garry Trudeau showing a big lipped Black Mammy had been done similarly for Obama, you'd have heard howls of protest that would have raised the roof and cries of "racism" from all corners of Leftydom.

The sneering condescension, the hypocrisy and sanctimony is enough to make you retch. Hence, the use of terms like "prescience" (which is better than "omniscience" I suppose), which would be laughable if not so unutterably sad.

Submitted by SK in CV on November 4, 2009 - 4:24pm.

Huckleberry wrote:
This puts a major dent in Obama's plan for big gov't and big spending. Especially the healthcare initiative!

This will start the movement of gov't gridlock.

Obama (and his administration) is on his way to being dead in the water.

Really? Let's see what happened. Two new D house members in favor of serious health care reform, one (Geramendi) more liberal than the D he replaced (Ellen Tauscher) and the other, a blue dog (Owens in NY-23) who moved left, not right in his campaign.

So Obama gets two new reliable votes in the house (one of which has been reliably republican in the past, and somehow that translates in a bad thing for him?

Fantasy trumps reality?

Submitted by briansd1 on November 4, 2009 - 9:31pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

The sneering condescension, the hypocrisy and sanctimony is enough to make you retch.

I learned that from the Catholic church ladies, especially the sanctimony part. ;)

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Hence, the use of terms like "prescience" (which is better than "omniscience" I suppose), which would be laughable if not so unutterably sad.

It seems to me that omniscience better applies to the Christian conservatives. After all they believe that they don't need to learn anything new since everything is in the Bible.

I guess that's why they want to "conserve" and home-school their children in creationism.

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on November 5, 2009 - 7:49pm.

C'mon Brian there are such a small number of people who match up to your stereotype of knuckle-dragging mouthbreaters, who breed and keep their kids ignorant. Every church I've ever been in including here in SD was full of very successful, well-educated professionals.

Submitted by surveyor on November 5, 2009 - 8:22pm.

briansd1 wrote:
We shall see in 2010....

I was an Obama supporter from the beginning when the majority didn't give him a chance of even beating Hillary. So guess who has more prescience?

For those of us who have known of how little substance Obama had and has proven to have (a fact that even you have alluded to), it just shows that you have been one of the first to have the wool pulled over your eyes, that's all.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 5, 2009 - 10:00pm.

CardiffBaseball wrote:
C'mon Brian there are such a small number of people who match up to your stereotype of knuckle-dragging mouthbreaters, who breed and keep their kids ignorant. Every church I've ever been in including here in SD was full of very successful, well-educated professionals.

Cardiff: Its bigotry, pure and simple. The church I grew up in (Los Altos, CA) numbered amongst its members one of the founders of Intel, numerous Stanford faculty, aerospace and computer hardware engineers, senior management at HP, IBM and Ford Aerospace (where my dad worked), etc, etc, etc.

The grade school I attended was attached to that church and was a seminary school and consistently ranked among the top 10 schools in the state. My high school was a feeder to Stanford, Cal (Berkeley) and the Ivies. For those paying attention: Catholic, Christian and parochial schools are noted for their college prep programs and academic excellence (we graduated 98% and boasted a 92% acceptance rate to colleges and universities).

Its easier, however, to be a bigot and demonize and scapegoat those who don't believe in your brand of "religion" (Leftism), forgetting, of course, that many of the greatest thinkers, scientists and philosophers were and are Christians.

Submitted by flu on November 5, 2009 - 10:09pm.

thank god.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 6, 2009 - 7:59am.

flu wrote:
thank god.

Every day, baby, every day.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 6, 2009 - 9:19am.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Cardiff: Its bigotry, pure and simple. The church I grew up in (Los Altos, CA) numbered amongst its members one of the founders of Intel, numerous Stanford faculty,

It not bigotry; it's quid pro quo. It's also the truth.

The truth is that despite their early religious schooling, most scientists and thinkers end up becoming empiricists, humanists, realists, agnostics and atheists.

Real thinkers have faith in humans and the universe, not Jesus.

There's plenty of religious evangelizing and proselytizing. An opposite reaction is self-defense in my opinion. Why can't the religious people accept a different point of view? They are the bigots.

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on November 6, 2009 - 11:13am.

briansd1 wrote:

It not bigotry; it's quid pro quo. It's also the truth.

The truth is that despite their early religious schooling, most scientists and thinkers end up becoming empiricists, humanists, realists, agnostics and atheists.

Real thinkers have faith in humans and the universe, not Jesus.

Whoa, you are correct there can be no common ground with a statement like that.

Regardless the christian school my kids attend has a very good track record of sending kids to Ivy/UCLA/Stanford etc. Many of the parents are some of the most wealthy, successful people in town. Powerful executives, attorneys, entrepreneurs, retired athletes, etc. I actually feel inadequate attending a function at a parent's house, compared the meager paycheck-to-paycheck existence I've seemingly put together.

My point is "they" are out there in far greater numbers than you can possibly fathom from what I can tell. And many of "them" are humble servants who understand "grace", and won't run around beating your head with a bible. Grace in fact does seem to be a lost term with certain types, and I am wholly (holy? ) with you on getting ticked at those people. I for different reasons than you, but nonetheless, I understand your frustration with them. I just think you are painting too broad of a brush here. There are probably 10 christians of the type I describe for every one you seem to be complaining about.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 6, 2009 - 12:03pm.

Cardiff: "Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".

You are declaiming to a wall, bubba. No ignorance is more frightening than when its apparently cloaked in education. You are dealing with a self indulgent, propagandized, pseudo-intellectual Leftist, and one who feels the rest of us are fools. Don't waste your time. I stopped responding to his various little epistles when the true nature of his personality emerged. Besides, when it comes to God, I'll defer to a far greater intellect than my own: Albert Einstein.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality." Albert Einstein

Submitted by Arraya on November 6, 2009 - 12:11pm.

Correlation does not imply causation.

This is a silly discussion.

A school's religious-ness has nothing to do with the success of the students.

Submitted by Arraya on November 6, 2009 - 12:18pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
Cardiff: "Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".

You are declaiming to a wall, bubba. No ignorance is more frightening than when its apparently cloaked in education. You are dealing with a self indulgent, propagandized, pseudo-intellectual Leftist, and one who feels the rest of us are fools. Don't waste your time. I stopped responding to his various little epistles when the true nature of his personality emerged. Besides, when it comes to God, I'll defer to a far greater intellect than my own: Albert Einstein.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality." Albert Einstein

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us, "Universe," a part
limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion
of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting
us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to
us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our
circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of
nature in its beauty.

Einstein

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 6, 2009 - 1:11pm.

Arraya wrote:
Correlation does not imply causation.

This is a silly discussion.

A school's religious-ness has nothing to do with the success of the students.

Arraya: My point regarding Catholic/Christian/parochial schools had nothing to do with religiosity. Quite the contrary. My point was that such schools deliver consistently excellent education and that RELIGIOSITY DOES NOT INTERVENE.

Brian's assertion regarding "Kansans" and Christians is that both groups are ignorant rubes and unable to see beyond their narrow blinders.

My riposte was that the exact opposite is true and that Faith and Reason are both necessary to fully open your mind and that there are literally hundreds of examples showing the interplay between Faith and Reason in philosophy, science and literature.

The true ignorance and bigotry is found in his broad brush approach that makes anyone of faith stupid, mindless and easily led. I take issue and offense, especially coming from someone who is mindless and easily led himself.