San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

There are thousands of political sites where you can talk about Michelle Obama. Why are you here?

I watched the speech. I was filled with pride, that Michelle Obama could be our next first lady, and with fear. Fear that this country still may not be awake enough to make that happen.

I don't find myself wanting to post politically on Piggington's because I've seen that the majority of political posters here are somewhat right-wing and combative. No need to stir hornet's nests...

But I do have hope, that things have changed, and that a couple very middle-class African Americans are about to be in charge of our government. That would be truly revolutionary, in a way that is hard to imagine. We'll see.

Oh yeah..................we should be proud of Michelle??
You know.............she was never proud to be an American until her lying, thieving, empty-suit of a husband decided to run for President. Did you see the latest story where she is being investigated for "patient dumping" of primarily poor black patients at the hospital where she was paid $317k per year. Really makes you proud, doesn't it?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/ob...

If you don't like my reply, then don't post political crap on this site. If you do, you're simply fodder for those of us who don't think that Obama, McCain, Kennedy, Clinton, Kerry, etc etc etc are anything more than crooks and thieves in suits.

We are at war and finding reasons in the world for more of it. The government is full of corruption....lots of people are going through difficult changes with more to come...and the presidential elections are some kind of circus. There should be a somewhat somber and thoughtful mood around this process. Instead it is a combination of vanity fair and mud wrestling...it is a bad circus.

[QUOTE]
Michelle Obama -- currently on unpaid leave from her $317,000-a-year job as a vice president of the prestigious hospital -- helped create the program, which aims to find neighborhood doctors for low-income people who were flooding the emergency room for basic treatment. Hospital officials say such patients hinder their ability to focus on more critically ill patients in need of specialized care, such as cancer treatment and organ transplants.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I don't see the problem. The ER is the most expensive place to seek medical attention. Redirecting non-emergency patients to other facilities makes sense.

Are patients being singled out based on race? That's a grey area that's hard to determine right away.

"Fear that this country still may not be awake enough to make that happen. "

"But I do have hope, that things have changed, and that a couple very middle-class African Americans are about to be in charge of our government. That would be truly revolutionary, in a way that is hard to imagine. We'll see."

You're essentially saying you're voting based on skin color? Yet, you want to see the country change? How hypocritical.

How about you vote for the best candidate, instead of blindly supporting someone based on their skin color.

You're wondering if anythings changed? Barrack and Michelle Obama received full scholarships and make more money than almost everyone on this board. What's the problem?

I'm not even watching the DNC. I don't think that any democrat could possibly be worse for the country and for the middle class than McBush-Romney "billionaire club" ticket. Personality of Obama's wife does not change that one bit. I'd even vote for John Edwards or Bill Clinton over McBush.

I believe that we need to concentrate on the only two choices that we have -- McCain or Obama. It's either that or not vote at all.

I'm voting for Obama over McCain. I watched Michelle. She was great on TV.

I can't wait for Cindy McCain's speech!

Yes, Cindy McCain's speech will be stupefying--I mean, stupendous. All about how hard it is to find good help to keep 5--or is it 7?--houses clean and in good repair, especially when at least 5 are boarded up while she and Johnny are on vacation. And how hard it is to keep one's hair properly coifed in the DC humidity in between the penthouse and the limo.... Can't wait.

I believe that we need to concentrate on the only two choices that we have -- McCain or Obama. It's either that or not vote at all

And those two choices are not really choices at all except in packaging.

The entire process is a cruel hoax. They should just label it "No Change 08"

Exactly; the responses by anxvariety and Ex-SD are emblematic of the typical right-wing response.

And I don't see how my previous post indicates my decision to vote for Obama is based on the color of his skin. Kind of a ridiculous concept, that.

I was simply saying that a middle-class African-American being elected President is revolutionary for the simple fact that it hasn't happened before. If it happens, it shakes up the status-quo in a way that is hard to imagine.

To be honest, I would have just as happily voted for Hillary, and with the same excitement, for the change that a woman president would have brought.

Any Democrat, white, black, brown, orange, green or yellow, would be a welcome change to the disgrace that was the Bush administration.

I am voting for who I think is the best person for the position, not for who I think has the best chance of winning. That's what I would do down at the Del Mar racetrack...pick a winner. This isn't a horserace to me.

A vote for anyone other than Obama or McCain is a vote of no-confidence in our political parties and their candidates. If enough people vote their minds, hearts, and guts, then maybe the two major parties would take notice and start representing the people again. Voting for the lesser of two evils still leaves you with evil.

Republicans and Democrats have given us or allowed:
1. a $9.6 Trillion debt ($32k for every man, woman, and child).
2. Over 700 military bases in over 130 countries.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115...
3. Handing over the Congress' right to coin money
3. Creation of the Federal Reserve system
4. Fiat money created out of nothing and which is backed and expanded by debt
5. Fractional reserve banking
6. A progressive tax structure whereby many people pay the gov't nearly half of what they make.
7. Increased privacy of the government; decreased privacy of the people (Patriot Act, National ID card).
X. Any others I've missed...?

What greekfire said.

Plus, they've created an expectation in the masses that government should bail you out of anything bad that may happen to you, especially if you are fortunte to have your misfortune happen to a group of people that can be pandered to.

We have become (past tense; not "are becoming") a "where's my bail out" society. Politiciaqns love this, because it makes them even more important.

The following data, taken from the public record, reveals each Presidential Candidate's proposed TAX Plan, if elected. Each taxpayer should become more informed before the November-08 General Election......or be willing to pay the tariff of ignorance, once taxes are enacted.

INTERESTING DATA ON TAXES

Spread the word.....

This is something you should be
aware of so you don't get blind-sided.
This is really going to catch a lot
of families off guard. It should
make you worry.

Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TA X

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000
per home (couples) McCain does not
propose any change in existing
home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you?
If you sell your home and make a profit, you
will pay 28% of your gain o n taxes.
If you are heading toward retirement
and would like to down-size your
home or move into a retirement
community, 28% of the money you
make from your home will go to taxes. This
proposal will adversely affect the
elderly who are counting on the income
from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% ( no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you?
If you have any money invested in stock
market, IRA, mutual funds,
college funds, life insurance, retirement
accounts, or anything that pays
or reinvests dividends, you will now
be paying nearly 4 0% of the money
earned on taxes if Obama become president.
The experts predict that 'higher
tax rates on dividends and capital gains
would crash the stock market yet
do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.

INCOM E TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama your tax es will
more than double!
How does this affect you? No explanation
needed. This is pretty
straight forward.

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

How does this affect you? Many families
have lost businesses,
farms and ranches, and homes
that have
been in their families
for generations because they could not
afford the inheritance tax.
Those willing their assets to loved
ones will not only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA

* New government taxes proposed on
homes that are more than
2400 square feet

* New gasoline taxes (as if
gas weren't high enough already)

* New taxes on natural resources
consumption (heating
gas, water, electricity)

* New taxes on retirement accounts
and last but not least....

* New taxes to pay for socialized medicine
so we can receive the same
level of medical care as other
third-world countries!!!

You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/elect...

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/...

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed...

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/polit...

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec...

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec...

The lower the taxes, the better if you ask me. Here's another one to add Ex-SD:

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

RON PAUL (No income tax!)

Single making 30K - tax $0
Single making 50K - tax $0
Single making 75K - tax $0
Married making 60K - tax $0
Married making 75K - tax $0
Married making 125K - tax $0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_p...

Actually, the biggest Obama tax increase (at least that would effect me) is having SS payroll taxes no longer limited (after the pure pandering $250K "bubble" for the democrat mainstream - after all, not fair to tax them, just other peoiple).

I am self-employed, so I pay double. This is effectively something on par of 9% increase (assuming SE taxes remain deductible against "regular" income taxes)! Much bigger than the return to Clinton brackets.

The MSM is unchallenged when it claims the "rich" (I believe defined as anyone earning more than the reporter) pay no taxes. What BS. (I think Wesley Snipes tried that, but it did not work out very well for him.)

Between the Fed and Calif, we pay more than 43% of our income in taxes. There are property and sales taxes on top of that. Why is that not enough? "Class jealousy"? Maybe. I dunno. The Obama tax increases will likely cost a couple of jobs in our small business. I know, I know, even better for the "government takes care of everyone" crowd if even more people are unemployed.

I am very unhappy with the current regime. I do not like either candidate. I can say with all honesty that just as patentguy brought up, my business will be significantly impacted if Obama is elected. I will have to choose to pass that pain onto my clients. It is plain and simple as that.

I do not see how paying significantly more taxes will raise my standard of living. I feel as if I am being asked to share my earnings with others. The harder I work, the more time I put in, the more money I am asked to give to the government.

Again, I am not favoring either party, I am simply presenting the outcome in pure logical numbers, from an engineering standpoint so to speak.

The biggest argument I hear for Obama is that he will represent change. Whether this is indeed true or not, I cannot say. He may have different views on alot of things, for better or for worse then the established views of the Clinton Bush machines..... However I am so highly against redistribution of wealth because I work alot. Long hours, long days, long nights and long weeks. I have been able to save alot of money and I don't believe my wealth should be redistributed. People can say what they want but Obama has a VERY strong belief in redistribution of wealth. I just find that to be counter to many beliefs I have about hard work and earning your keep.

I guess I am selfish. Yes McBush sucks as well.

Having Bush lower taxes at the expense of the deficit is absolutely insane. To have McCain want to continue those policies reminds me of a movie: Dumb and Dumber.

If the Republicans are ever to *really* be seen as fiscally responsible, they are going to have to ONLY cut taxes when there is no deficit!! Otherwise, they are clearly doing a "what's in it for me" and not giving a rats rear if it is their kids who pay for their tax cut. How family oriented is that?

svelte I could not agree more. Deficit spending is ridiculous. If I made any implication that the repubes were fiscally responsible please let me know as that was not the intent. If Obama were to significantly raise taxes simply to pay down the deficit I would indeed vote for him in A HEARTBEAT.

However my belief again, and you perhaps can correct me if I am wrong, is that his intention is to establish larger federal programs with the increased tax revenue. If I have missed where he has pledged to pay down the deficit and not establish additional programs please let me know.

Again, this is far from an endorsement of McCain so please don't take it to be one as that is not the intention.

I don't think this is accurate. My understanding is the inheritance tax exclusion amount is a rotating thing, starting in 2002 with $1 million exclusion, and then every two years an addition $1/2 million exclusion, up to 2009 which is $3.5 million. In 2010, there will be no inheritance tax...if you die that year, lucky you...Actually, lucky are your heirs... :(. But, starting in 2011, it goes back to $1million exemption. And there is not indication if thereafter, the exemption will increase every two years or the $1million exemption stays or a higher limit is imposed.

Bush/republicans tried to make the repeal of the inheritance tax permanent i think. But that bill failed to pass in 2006 when I believe it was combined with a minimum wage bill.

So in fairness to Obama and McCain, neither of them are really a reimposing a higher estate taxes. If either of them don't do anything, it automatically reverts to a higher taxable amount.

Now what I understand the difference between obama and mccain is is that

McCain wants to make the exclusion amount $5million and cap estate taxes at 15% thereafter

Obama wants to make the exclusion amount $3.5million
and maintain the maximum estate tax rate at 45%

In either case, it still would need to go through Congress, making this really a moot point right now.

Also, it's really a moot points, because there are additional ways to shelter inheritance above the exclusion rates that has to do a lot with doing various types of trusts, annuities,insurance, etc..all of which is too complicated for me with a peon sized brain to explain, but very rich people's estate attorney probably is really well versed in.

BTW: the comparison between McCain and Obama in terms of tax was posted at Snopes and indicated to be erroneous in numerous ways.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/tax...

Ex-SD,

From where I stand, a vote for McCain is a vote for more business as usual. As has been stated on these boards over and over again, our current course of a debt-driven society is unsustainable. The writing is on the wall. At some point, our taxes will have to go back up in order to restore balance, and from what I read of your “data”, McCain doesn’t seem prepared to do so when I don’t see either candidate as having much of a choice.

What gets me about all of the political topics on this blog are the number of regular piggs who advocate responsible saving and investment, yet turn around and support a candidate who represents a party which has a worse record for debt accumulation in recent decades than the democrats. It leads me to question the credibility and motives of anyone who campaigns for savings and accountability after having voted for GW twice.

edit: Pulled the bit quoting and commenting on your erroneous data.

Mark Holmes,
I have agreed with almost everything you've said on this thread.

Michelle O gave a solid speech & how cute are those kids! Political issues aside - my kids are their age, and I couldn't help but feel like I identified w/ Obama even more after seeing them up there as a family.

Ex-SD
I loved your post - it was in true Piggington form laying out your facts as you did, and you even supplied reference links. Your points fall short however, and they are MISLEADING at best.

First, I had difficulty finding the sources of your facts when I clicked the links you provided.

DIVIDEND TAX - 39.6% tax is only for the wealthy located at the top tax bracket. Obama is basically back to treating divs like ordinary income. Middle class will not be impacted much by this.

ESTATE TAX - don't forget the lifetime exclusion of $1mill to taxpayers as well as spousal step-up in basis. Even when reinstated the estate tax this will mostly only impact the very wealthy.

INCOME TAX - According to your CNN link, Obama only proposes rolling-back (increasing) tax rates on the top two brackets & the lower brackets would remain unchanged. This means you would have to make about $250k married or $150k single before you see an increase in your tax due to rate changes.

CAP GAINS - your most compelling point was regarding tax on gain of principal residence. I did see in your sources mentioning of cap gain increases for wealthy, but I couldn't find anything about lifting the $500k exclusion. Can you specifically point out where you got this info?

PAYROLL TAX - I'm not sure you mentioned that one, and admittedly it's a doozy for the wealthy making over $250k (MFJ), but if you've got a better way of saving Soc Sec, get Barack on the batphone quick.

Overall, Obama is increasing taxes on the wealthy and leaving middle-class alone. In fact, I did not even touch on the tax breaks he is offering the middle class.

Hear me now & believe me later...
OBAMA WILL DECREASE INCOME TAX FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS. (under $250k MFJ)

OBAMA WILL INCREASE INCOME TAX FOR THE WEALTHY.

Actually, Obama's tax plan will impact the upper middle class, not just the wealthy, but that's beside the point. The posting comparing tax plans was an email many received and has various inconsistencies, as pointed out pretty when at that snopes.com link I posted.

SDR,

To tell you the truth I haven't studied Obama's spending plan that closely. It might make a nice weekend project for me this weekend coming up. :)

Maybe I'm making assumptions that I shouldn't make.

Oh, come now. The Democrats aren't exactly painting the entire truth either. Last time i checked, Obama isn't exactly in the poor house that he and his crew is trying to make him out to be. Far from it. It's hypocritical at best.

I hate politics, it's like a soap opera, except with a bunch of older, uglier people.

You'll get NO argument from me that GWB is one of the worst President's in U.S. history. And, that John McCain is far from what I'd like to see in The White House.............BUT..............If you think Obama and a Democrat-controlled Congress isn't going to pick your bones clean with new legislation, taxes and fees.................then you've got your head up your ass. It amazes me how ignorant and blind, otherwise intelligent people will become because they are in love with some god-damned politician or political party that blows smoke up their asshole.
I believe that most politicians are crooks but I'm going to hold my nose and vote for McCain because I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that this country will get much, much worse under Obama. (And the same goes for Hillary, any Kennedy, Kerry, Coumo or other flaming liberal who believes that they're going to save mankind with more social giveaway programs or global warming fees & taxes).

oh, i don't deny, from purely a selfish perspective, my household will most likely be seeing much taxes paid, without seeing where it all goes. And like i said before, I'm expecting a Democrat house and senate sweep. That is my only motivation for voting for McCain, so that government can be as inept at passing changes through as possible.

BUT, again the specific article used to quote McCain Obama differences isn't pragmatically accurate.

Despite what employers, politicians, bosses say about "Change is Good", Dilbert followers will understand that "Change" is a euphenism for chaos and someone getting screwed. You just need to figure out if you are the screwer or the screwee.

Obama will be our first affirmative action president. The less qualified candidate is promoted to president because of his color. No wonder people don't want to entrust the country to him. Would you want an affirmative action doctor to operate on you? Would you even want an affirmative action mechanic to work on your car? No, I want a truly qualified person. Obama's credentials are weaker than mine. And I'm not so arrogant to think that I could run this country successfully.