This story bothered me, but now like you. I mean how do you go from being a loan processor to living in your car? Did you not save any money and just spend it all? Do you have to live in Santa Barbara, more expensive than San Diego? These are choices people make. Very bad ones. I must be some kind of unsympathetic bitch, but come on. What did she do before she was a loan officer? I mean, she's 67. It's not like some guy out of high school who just got a job as a loan officer and shot his wad of money b/c he doesn't know better. Also, she has 3 grown kids. They can't help her, put her up?
I agree, it's hard for me to feel sorry for her. I've known people that have made financial mistakes every month for their entire adult lives (decades on end), and it's their own fault if they never learn from them.
I like to think of my financial well-being as a game. To win, I have to make good decisions every single day.
Submitted by seattle-relo on May 20, 2008 - 1:17pm.
It seems that she has other options if she is willing to move away from Santa Monica. Her social security goes with her anywhere, and there are other more affordable places where she can make 8 bucks an hour. She could also consider living in senior housing that has a lower rent - I think her biggest barrier is insisting on staying in Santa Monica - is she still hoping for the glamour and perceived riches of that location? It is a sad story, and I believe a lot of lives will have been temporarily ruined by the greed of the entire system that caused this, but I don't feel as sorry for this person because I do believe she has other options then living in her car.
BobS
Speaking of choices, she also CHOSE to own two huge dogs, which means dog food bills, vet bills, etc., to say nothing of limiting your work & occupational possibilities.
Incidentally, it is inhumane to lock two big dogs in your car and go off to work.
BobS - good point. What happens to the dogs when she's working. I am actually angry about that story. 67 years old. Did you not have a retirement plan? Was she that bad of a mom that the kids don't want to help her? She has no other family, brother, sister, aunt? Can't she worse case, move to Phoenix and work at a Starbucks for $10 an hour. Again - poor choices.
CityBeat interviews a homeless person once a week. Many of them choose to be homeless. They don't want the responsibilities and obligations.
Granted, she obviously at one time had it together, but hard for me to believe this is her only and last option.
She should try moving to a lower cost city with good public transport and good job opportunities. If she doesn't have to use a car, it saves a LOT on gas, insurance, maintenance etc., With just that alone, she can probably rent an inexpensive place.
I am weak on family law; does the law not provide for alimony for someone in her situation, especially if her ex-spouse is well off? If she spent her life as a homemaker, she deserves that in any sane society.
I think you have all made great suggestions to help this lady. And some very good observations were made here.
One added observation:
"There but for the grace of God go I."
"Some of the best laid plans of Mice and Men often go awry."
- John Steinbeck, Of Mice and Men
- Robert Burns, To a Mouse
Believe me, those of you in your twenties and thirties, you will learn the meaning of these expressions at some point in your lives. Misfortune comes to those who plan and to those who don't plan. You will see it happen to some of your friends, family and relatives over the course of time. Maybe it won't happen to you. But believe me, if you can try to understand that it could happen to you, through no fault of your own, then you will be a wiser and humbler person than you are now.
How you deal with your misfortunes and your losses both personal and financial will truly be your defining moments.
Allow me to end this thread and save us all the time of having to read the many pointless posts that will undoubtedly collect here. I will list all of the points that us piggies would otherwise have to spend our valuable time entering into this little beige box. Okay, here we go.
* She is a liberal dum-dum head that should have known better. This situation is clearly all her fault! Dum-dum! She probably voted for THE ABOMINABLE JOHN EDWARDS in the democratic primary.
* Where is her pension? What about her 401K? Maybe she put it all in Enron stock. Ha ha what a dum-dum head!
* Why doesn't she have rental income from houses that she purchased using no-down pick-a-pay option ARMs in Vegas or Riverside? If she had done that she would be sitting pretty -- oh wait I guess not. Sorry.
* Why didn't she invest all of her money in dividend-producing stocks when Bush took office? If she had she would be reaping dividend income at a greatly reduced tax rate now! What a dum-dum head. Clearly she deserves to sleep in her car.
* She can always eat those dogs, there is a lot of good meat there. Hey she is better off than lots of people in the world who don't have dogs to eat!
* Everything will be much better after all of these useless people start moving away from places that people like us enjoy living in. They would be much happier in Des Moines or Tallahassee.
sounds pretty cool to me, relatively. living by the beach. people spend too much time in the house anyway. hanging out outside, good facilities in santa monica, lotsa people. i wouldnt mind hanging out and sleeping in my car for a while. could be fun! id rather live in my car and hang out around the beach than move to phoenix an dwork ina fast food restaurant!
HarryBosch - I could not have said it better myself. I'm in my early 40s and have experienced/witnessed things in my life that I simply would not have thought possible 10 or 20 years ago.
I've seen good people work hard to raise kids who have viciously turned on them in adulthood; financially savvy people make a wrong move, become seriously ill, or incapacitated, and have everything they worked so hard for come crashing down. I've seen people literally be in the "Wrong place at the wrong time" and get screwed in irrevocable ways.
Yes, good planning is important but at the end of the day it's all kind of a numbers game isnt it? One day, your number could be up and The Unexpected happens. Kind of like the film, "American Beauty"...doesnt Kevin Spacey announce - in the beginning of the film - that he didnt know he was going to die when he woke up that day?
I seriously doubt that any of you posters are in your 60s - at least the ones suggesting the woman move to Phoenix and work at St. Arbucks.
At 67, this woman may have some sort of a support system in Santa Barbara, however meager it may be. It could be terrifying for a woman that age to pick up and move to Phoenix and work with a bunch of smart-ass, tattooed and pierced baristas for $10/hour. If you've lived in a place for a while, understand how the "system" works there, it could be scary to pick up and move.
So, to all of you who say she is a "dum dum liberal" and all of that....let's just hope that your life glides along according to your meticulous plans.
As HarryB says, "There but for the grace of God I go."
You never know what the future has in store for you. Be grateful for what you have now, and be kind to the less fortunate.
67 years old. Did you not have a retirement plan? Was she that bad of a mom that the kids don't want to help her? She has no other family, brother, sister, aunt? Can't she worse case, move to Phoenix and work at a Starbucks for $10 an hour. Again - poor choices.
Its kind of strange, I have some familiarity with people who end up going this way. My father used and/or screwed over anyone who was associated with him or tried to help him. After a while, people just stayed away. He was never there for the kids. He quit a well paying job to do stock speculating. Because of the noise of the kids, he insisted on buying another house. He did not do that well at investing, but insisted on continuing (and not going back to the 9 to 5, in spite of responsibilities of a family). He didn't want anyone to be his boss. My mom ended up carrying the cost of the first house and part of the second.. which she later found out he was using as a love-nest.. in a shit hits the fan moment.
In the divorce, he basically got both houses because my mom wanted her income and retirement to be free and clear of him. She took the kids and raised them. The end result was that my mom prospered and he sort of floated along, alienating everyone who tried to help. He also ended up with very little money to his name.
Moral of this is that when you seem something like what has happened to that 67 year old woman, it is probably Karma doing its payback. Another thing to realize is that one bad decision doesn't take someone and put them on the street like this. It takes a succession of decisions, their consequences and not learning from them.
PS: 67 is old enough to draw Social Security...
@bsrsharma I am weak on family law; does the law not provide for alimony for someone in her situation, especially if her ex-spouse is well off? If she spent her life as a homemaker, she deserves that in any sane society.
Alimony, not necessarily.. BUT she gets half of all assets in most community property states. After the divorce, the two are essentially separate individuals. It is tricky to go back and have additional monies levied because one of the two made a series of bad decisions after the divorce. In many ways, you don't even want to open the door to that. It would also open the door to being sued for support because someone you once dated and lived with is now having financial problems. NOTE: she could have been one of those women who divorced the husband and took him to the cleaners. People saw what she was doing and it left a bad taste.
There are so many variables.. but I do know that in general, if you do good to others, it comes back to you in times of need (Karma).
Penal Code Section 597.7 reads:
(a) No person shall leave or confine an animal in any
unattended motor vehicle under conditions that endanger the health or well-being of an animal due to heat, cold, lack of adequate ventilation, or lack of food or water, or other circumstances that could reasonably be expected to cause suffering, disability, or death to the animal.
While the ocean breezes of Santa Barbara may not cause the animals to die, getting fined or arrested for this violation is probably the last thing the woman needs at this point.
From the article at the very end: "My daughter especially is very unhappy. Sometimes she'll cry, and she'll call and say, 'Mom, I just can't stand it that you are living in a car,' " Harvey said. "I'll say, 'You know what? This is OK for right now, because I'm safe, I'm healthy, the dogs are doing OK, and I have a job, and things will get better.' "
dharmagirl, "American Beauty" is one of my favorites. The scene that sticks with me is when that young man describes watching a plastic bag being spun around by the wind as the most beautiful thing he has ever recorded.
I've thought about that scene and tried to interpret it. I think that on one level the story is saying that no matter how ugly or unhappy our life can be there is still beauty in this world to be found. Or on a story plot level the young man is so desperate for hope in his world that the sight of a plastic bag animated by nature is beautiful for its simplicity. Or maybe the bag and the wind show that we really don't have much control over the circumstances of our lives.
Why would you not want/allow your children to help you?
Most parents do so much for children. When you have adult children and you're older, why wouldn't you want to be able to count on an adult child for help?
I help my mom w/out her even asking.
This is sad b/c she wants to do this, live in her car. There are so many options out there.
I know sometimes life happens. Maybe when you plan for some things, it doesn't always go as you want. This is just the worse thing that can happen and to not ask family for help is just dumb. Sorry.
would you rather be healthy and living in a car or real sick and living in a mansion. no brainer. The car wins!
the dogs make the car safer. get s shower in a gym or at the beach. if it were a little bigger, an rv, nobody would have a problem with the sleeping space. it's not the fact that it's a motor vehicle, but the smallness of the vehicle? One of my regrets in life is that i didn't bum around more. i spent a while homeless and bouncing around, but i wished it had gone on longer...67's kinda old for that but not if you're in good repair...
American Beauty was such a wonderful, thought provoking film. I was going through a divorce when it came out (1999). My emotions were pretty raw and the film touched me on many levels.
The bag scene made an impact on me, too...to me it seemed like a "stop and smell the roses" sort of thing...how many people really notice something as simple and mundane as a bag flitting around on a windy day? Most of us are in constant motion and dont take time out of our lives to really notice the little things.
I liked your interpretation about the bag and the wind and lack of control. I've found that to be the case in many cases. We like to think we are so smart and have things so under control and then one day, some random, unexpected, never-imagined thing happens and - BAM!- your entire "reality" goes up in smoke...or you end up living in your car.
Jeez, everybody wake up and smell the looming crises. There will be many more stories like this in the near future. Eventually using the "it's probably their fault anyway" will not work anymore. You'll eventually have to look up and point your finger at the utter criminal mismanagement of our economic-political system. Let me give you a hint. They are practicing their "this was completely unforeseeable" speech as we speak.
We will need a little more compassion or this will be a very ugly place to live.
Submitted by patientrenter on May 21, 2008 - 2:08am.
There are very few people who end up homeless at 67 who got there after making nothing but financially prudent choices their whole lives. I'd need to hear her whole life story, and from more than one source, before I'd swallow that line.
And if you make some financially imprudent choices, then you pay the price. You stack up good choices like crazy all your life to try to offset the occasional bad luck or bad choice. That's the way the world works. Ignoring that is like trying to ignore gravity - it doesn't work out.
To those of you who think that no one really wants to be homeless, I invite you to read "The Glass Castle" By Jeanette Walls.
My wife's mother worked until she was 85. She lived in a trailer until she could get into elderly housing. She made a lot of bad choices in life, but she was never homeless. She also didn't insist on living in the most expensive community possible. Most, not all, homeless people are homeless because of the decisions they make every waking minute of every day. Some of them can be considered insane, some are just incredibly lazy. It is not a problem government can solve, short of incarceration, and that would be illegal and immoral.
Brutus, I loved "The Glass Castle". However, what you did not mention is that the author's mother was, indeed, mentally ill. I've heard Jeanette Walls lecture about the book and she discusses this. The mother is now living with Jeanette and her husband in a trailer on their horse farm. Jeanette harbors no bitterness or ill will towards her mother which I find to be rather remarkable...to survive an abusive situation and still find compassion.
I think your comments about the homeless are insensitive. I'm no expert, but I believe many homeless people suffer from severe forms of mental illness, rather than "laziness" as you put it.
My understanding is that homelessness can be a vicious circle. Mental illness isolates people from any friends/family who might want to help, and then the lack of medical care/medication just exacerbates the situation.
I think we will see many more stories like this and, while it may not happen to YOU and your financially prudent self, you may find yourself with a friend or family member who is homeless. Will you then look at them and make snarky comments about their poor planning skills?
As we all know, many people in their 40s and 50s are in total DENIAL about the importance of retirement savings. During the boom, some of my friends and colleagues smugly referred to their homes as their "retirement account."
As these folks approach their twilight years, with only Social Security (if it's still around), they may be forced to live in their cars and share Alpo sandwiches with Fido, too. I think the "aftershocks" of the housing meltdown are only in their infancy...
Believe me, those of you in your twenties and thirties, you will learn the meaning of these expressions at some point in your lives. Misfortune comes to those who plan and to those who don't plan. You will see it happen to some of your friends, family and relatives over the course of time. Maybe it won't happen to you. But believe me, if you can try to understand that it could happen to you, through no fault of your own, then you will be a wiser and humbler person than you are now.
Well, said Harry. Let's have some sympathy people.
I think its harsh to view her plight as her own fault. Her finances could have been crippled by medical bills. Not everyone is fortuante enough to have medical insurance. Perhaps she hasn't always worked because she was a stay at home mom. Perhaps her ex-husband screwed her and took all their money overseas. If she was working, she may have been "providing" for her children as a single mother and therefore never able to save much. Perhaps she suffered from a horrible financial advisor who invested poorly and left her with little. How can anyone be callous enough to say that its her fault she's in the position she's in and deserves to live in a car for her stupid choices? Have you never made a stupid choice in your life or been struck my misfortune?
Perhaps she's staying in SB because she wants to be near her 19 year old daughter. When you're down and out, I think you'd want support in the form of love. For her to just pick up and move somewhere less expensive and away from the only love and support it sounds like she has, might be quite difficult.
I think its easy for those of us sitting in our comfortable homes / glass towers to cast stones. Perhaps we should all stop living on our high horses and reach out to help others. If you're too selfish to help others, at least have some sympathy.
And I thought I was gonna have it rough for being a tech working in the 30ies. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in the 50ies and in tech.
Morale of the story to tech workers: get busy being self-employed. It's only a matter of time before that person you read about (and some of you that snicker) becomes you.
Out of a job and out of luck at 54
A growing number of older workers are losing their jobs as the economy weakens. And many are having a harder time landing new positions.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Too young to retire, too old to get a new job. That's how many older workers are feeling these days.
While it's not easy to land a job in this weak economy, older workers are in a particularly tough spot. Corporate downsizings are hitting this group hard, with many companies looking to shed the higher-paid positions these employees often occupy. Even worse, older job seekers are discovering the search is even rougher as many employers shy away from hiring those closer to retirement than to the start of their careers.
The downsizings come at a bad time for older workers. Not only can't they afford to retire, but many were counting on beefing up their 401(k) accounts in the years before they exit the labor force. Compounding the problem is the slumping stock market, which has left them with a deflated 401(k) cushion to draw on while looking for a new post.
"There are tons of folks out there who cannot afford to live once they've faced that involuntary layoff," said Renee Ward, founder of Seniors4Hire.org, an online community for older workers and companies looking to hire them. "And it takes them a little longer to find a suitable position."
Facing downsizing
To be sure, workers of all ages are suffering as companies trim their payrolls. The national unemployment rate has jumped to 5%, up from 4.5% a year ago.
But older workers are increasingly getting the corporate ax these days. Among the unemployed age 55 to 64, nearly 42% had been fired or laid off, up from 32.2% a year ago, according to federal statistics for April. The figures are even grimmer for those age 65 and older, with 23.5% getting laid off, up from 10.4% in 2007. These older workers saw the largest percentage point increases of any age group during that time period.
Overall, the unemployment rate for those age 55 to 64 stayed relatively stable at 2.7%, largely because fewer workers opted to leave their jobs or re-enter the job search. The rate for those age 65-plus ticked up a bit to 3.5% as more also chose to resign.
"When the market goes down, the more senior people are the first to go," said Ellen Gottlich, president of Forty Plus of New York, which helps executives and professionals find new jobs.
After they get the pink slip, older workers spend more time on the unemployment line. Many lack the skills to search for jobs in today's online world and to craft resumes and cover letters, experts say. And too often, they are told they are overqualified.
Take Dale Booth. Since being laid off from a computer business systems analyst post at National City Corp. in October, the 54-year-old resident of Medina, Ohio, has sent out hundreds of resumes. He's gone to recruiting agencies and even had his daughter forward his resume to the human resources manager at the hospital where she works.
So far, he's had only one interview. About 90% of the time, he gets no response and the other 10% he gets a form letter thanking him for applying.
His age, he thinks, is a factor because companies are concerned older workers won't stick around and have higher medical costs. Also, though he has told recruiters his salary requirement is $50,000 - $35,000 less than he made at National City - Booth thinks employers view him as a costly hire.
"At my age and experience, there's an expectation that they'll have to pay me more," said Booth, who is married with three grown daughters.
Hunting hard to find new job
It took those age 55 and older an average of 21.1 weeks to land a new job in 2007, about five weeks longer than their younger counterparts, according to AARP.
"Clearly older workers will be more adversely affected because of the time it takes to transition into another job," said Deborah Russell, AARP's director of workforce issues.
During the recession of the early 1990s, older workers were hit hard by mass layoffs. Concerned this is happening again, AARP is reaching out to companies conducting the large-scale downsizings and giving them tip sheets to distribute to older workers. The handouts aim to help workers navigate today's job market by explaining search methods such as online employment boards and the importance of networking.
Many older workers are taking jobs below their pay scale because it's all they can find, said Ward of Seniors4Hire, which is experiencing a greater demand for its services. She's seen an experienced telecom worker making $65,000 a year accepting a customer service position in satellite companies making $11 an hour.
While Ward can find companies willing to hire older workers, many of her listings are for part-time jobs, sales positions, retail clerks or customer service reps. Even then, it can be hard for these job seekers to get hired.
"A lot of people are told they are overqualified," she said.
While some may think those older than age 55 can just retire, it's not a viable option for many, said Steven Sass, co-author of "Working Longer," a new book looking at delaying retirement. Many Americans simply can't afford to stop working that young, he said.
"Most people don't have enough money," Sass said. "If they are going to have a comfortable retirement, they are really going to have to stay in the labor force. But it's tough to get a job when you're old...especially in a recession."
Chuck Dunn knows he can't afford to retire. The 56-year-old has had no choice but to liquidate his retirement account after losing his product development job with a high-end electronics manufacturer in October. Now he's considering selling his house before he becomes a foreclosure statistic.
But Dunn also can't find a job, despite sending out several hundred resumes. He's contacted those he knows in the industry, scoured online jobs sites and worked with his local employment commission with no success.
"This is very frustrating for me since I am in my middle 50s and was trying to save money for my retirement, not destroy my savings," said Dunn, a bachelor who lives in Holly Springs, N.C.
Ageism is a huge problem. Unfortunately for the boomers, retiring is not an option as stated by the article above and by many other studies. For many, the one fundamental reason they cannot retire and cannot survive financially without a "full time" job with health care benefits is for the health care alone.
I hope that our society will look to address ageism with the huge population of baby boomers as age discrimination is no better than discrimination on sex, race, or religion. However I think its one of the least talked about compared to the other forms of discriminiation.
For those who think well I'm in my 20s or 30s and why should I care now about ageism? Not only may it affect you very personally in the next decade or so, but it may affect you in the form of having to take care of your parents in some form or another. If your parents live to be 85 or 90 and have sporadic employment starting in their mid or late 50s, how many of them can afford healthcare until Medicare kicks in? Even after Medicare and Social Security kick in, how many can afford the cost of living for 30-40 years and possibly buying supplemental insurance?
Submitted by uncleknobhead on June 17, 2008 - 12:15pm.
I'm one of her sons who live in England and this story does not suprise me.She left me as a 6 year old kid and i did'nt see her again until i was 16 when she came back to england to see me and my brother, her other son.Luckily we had a good dad who looked after us as we grew up.Every time i have heard from her she has lost her job and moved to a new home. I don't speak to her anymore as the last time i saw her she tried to cause friction between me and my wife.My brother also asked her to leave his house when she last came over as i did 3 days later due to her demands and wants. She deserves to be living in a car as living in a $1000,000 dollar condo is obvoiusly way above her means.Me and my brother where lucky to get a card on our birthdays.
This story bothered me, but now like you. I mean how do you go from being a loan processor to living in your car? Did you not save any money and just spend it all? Do you have to live in Santa Barbara, more expensive than San Diego? These are choices people make. Very bad ones. I must be some kind of unsympathetic bitch, but come on. What did she do before she was a loan officer? I mean, she's 67. It's not like some guy out of high school who just got a job as a loan officer and shot his wad of money b/c he doesn't know better. Also, she has 3 grown kids. They can't help her, put her up?
I agree, it's hard for me to feel sorry for her. I've known people that have made financial mistakes every month for their entire adult lives (decades on end), and it's their own fault if they never learn from them.
I like to think of my financial well-being as a game. To win, I have to make good decisions every single day.
It seems that she has other options if she is willing to move away from Santa Monica. Her social security goes with her anywhere, and there are other more affordable places where she can make 8 bucks an hour. She could also consider living in senior housing that has a lower rent - I think her biggest barrier is insisting on staying in Santa Monica - is she still hoping for the glamour and perceived riches of that location? It is a sad story, and I believe a lot of lives will have been temporarily ruined by the greed of the entire system that caused this, but I don't feel as sorry for this person because I do believe she has other options then living in her car.
BobS
Speaking of choices, she also CHOSE to own two huge dogs, which means dog food bills, vet bills, etc., to say nothing of limiting your work & occupational possibilities.
Incidentally, it is inhumane to lock two big dogs in your car and go off to work.
BobS - good point. What happens to the dogs when she's working. I am actually angry about that story. 67 years old. Did you not have a retirement plan? Was she that bad of a mom that the kids don't want to help her? She has no other family, brother, sister, aunt? Can't she worse case, move to Phoenix and work at a Starbucks for $10 an hour. Again - poor choices.
CityBeat interviews a homeless person once a week. Many of them choose to be homeless. They don't want the responsibilities and obligations.
Granted, she obviously at one time had it together, but hard for me to believe this is her only and last option.
She should try moving to a lower cost city with good public transport and good job opportunities. If she doesn't have to use a car, it saves a LOT on gas, insurance, maintenance etc., With just that alone, she can probably rent an inexpensive place.
I am weak on family law; does the law not provide for alimony for someone in her situation, especially if her ex-spouse is well off? If she spent her life as a homemaker, she deserves that in any sane society.
I think you have all made great suggestions to help this lady. And some very good observations were made here.
One added observation:
"There but for the grace of God go I."
"Some of the best laid plans of Mice and Men often go awry."
- John Steinbeck, Of Mice and Men
- Robert Burns, To a Mouse
Believe me, those of you in your twenties and thirties, you will learn the meaning of these expressions at some point in your lives. Misfortune comes to those who plan and to those who don't plan. You will see it happen to some of your friends, family and relatives over the course of time. Maybe it won't happen to you. But believe me, if you can try to understand that it could happen to you, through no fault of your own, then you will be a wiser and humbler person than you are now.
How you deal with your misfortunes and your losses both personal and financial will truly be your defining moments.
Allow me to end this thread and save us all the time of having to read the many pointless posts that will undoubtedly collect here. I will list all of the points that us piggies would otherwise have to spend our valuable time entering into this little beige box. Okay, here we go.
* She is a liberal dum-dum head that should have known better. This situation is clearly all her fault! Dum-dum! She probably voted for THE ABOMINABLE JOHN EDWARDS in the democratic primary.
* Where is her pension? What about her 401K? Maybe she put it all in Enron stock. Ha ha what a dum-dum head!
* Why doesn't she have rental income from houses that she purchased using no-down pick-a-pay option ARMs in Vegas or Riverside? If she had done that she would be sitting pretty -- oh wait I guess not. Sorry.
* Why didn't she invest all of her money in dividend-producing stocks when Bush took office? If she had she would be reaping dividend income at a greatly reduced tax rate now! What a dum-dum head. Clearly she deserves to sleep in her car.
* She can always eat those dogs, there is a lot of good meat there. Hey she is better off than lots of people in the world who don't have dogs to eat!
* Everything will be much better after all of these useless people start moving away from places that people like us enjoy living in. They would be much happier in Des Moines or Tallahassee.
sounds pretty cool to me, relatively. living by the beach. people spend too much time in the house anyway. hanging out outside, good facilities in santa monica, lotsa people. i wouldnt mind hanging out and sleeping in my car for a while. could be fun! id rather live in my car and hang out around the beach than move to phoenix an dwork ina fast food restaurant!
Drink Heavily.
HarryBosch - I could not have said it better myself. I'm in my early 40s and have experienced/witnessed things in my life that I simply would not have thought possible 10 or 20 years ago.
I've seen good people work hard to raise kids who have viciously turned on them in adulthood; financially savvy people make a wrong move, become seriously ill, or incapacitated, and have everything they worked so hard for come crashing down. I've seen people literally be in the "Wrong place at the wrong time" and get screwed in irrevocable ways.
Yes, good planning is important but at the end of the day it's all kind of a numbers game isnt it? One day, your number could be up and The Unexpected happens. Kind of like the film, "American Beauty"...doesnt Kevin Spacey announce - in the beginning of the film - that he didnt know he was going to die when he woke up that day?
I seriously doubt that any of you posters are in your 60s - at least the ones suggesting the woman move to Phoenix and work at St. Arbucks.
At 67, this woman may have some sort of a support system in Santa Barbara, however meager it may be. It could be terrifying for a woman that age to pick up and move to Phoenix and work with a bunch of smart-ass, tattooed and pierced baristas for $10/hour. If you've lived in a place for a while, understand how the "system" works there, it could be scary to pick up and move.
So, to all of you who say she is a "dum dum liberal" and all of that....let's just hope that your life glides along according to your meticulous plans.
As HarryB says, "There but for the grace of God I go."
You never know what the future has in store for you. Be grateful for what you have now, and be kind to the less fortunate.
Because Karma has a way of kicking ass.
67 years old. Did you not have a retirement plan? Was she that bad of a mom that the kids don't want to help her? She has no other family, brother, sister, aunt? Can't she worse case, move to Phoenix and work at a Starbucks for $10 an hour. Again - poor choices.
Its kind of strange, I have some familiarity with people who end up going this way. My father used and/or screwed over anyone who was associated with him or tried to help him. After a while, people just stayed away. He was never there for the kids. He quit a well paying job to do stock speculating. Because of the noise of the kids, he insisted on buying another house. He did not do that well at investing, but insisted on continuing (and not going back to the 9 to 5, in spite of responsibilities of a family). He didn't want anyone to be his boss. My mom ended up carrying the cost of the first house and part of the second.. which she later found out he was using as a love-nest.. in a shit hits the fan moment.
In the divorce, he basically got both houses because my mom wanted her income and retirement to be free and clear of him. She took the kids and raised them. The end result was that my mom prospered and he sort of floated along, alienating everyone who tried to help. He also ended up with very little money to his name.
Moral of this is that when you seem something like what has happened to that 67 year old woman, it is probably Karma doing its payback. Another thing to realize is that one bad decision doesn't take someone and put them on the street like this. It takes a succession of decisions, their consequences and not learning from them.
PS: 67 is old enough to draw Social Security...
@bsrsharma
I am weak on family law; does the law not provide for alimony for someone in her situation, especially if her ex-spouse is well off? If she spent her life as a homemaker, she deserves that in any sane society.
Alimony, not necessarily.. BUT she gets half of all assets in most community property states. After the divorce, the two are essentially separate individuals. It is tricky to go back and have additional monies levied because one of the two made a series of bad decisions after the divorce. In many ways, you don't even want to open the door to that. It would also open the door to being sued for support because someone you once dated and lived with is now having financial problems. NOTE: she could have been one of those women who divorced the husband and took him to the cleaners. People saw what she was doing and it left a bad taste.
There are so many variables.. but I do know that in general, if you do good to others, it comes back to you in times of need (Karma).
It is not only inhumane, it is illegal:
Penal Code Section 597.7 reads:
(a) No person shall leave or confine an animal in any
unattended motor vehicle under conditions that endanger the health or well-being of an animal due to heat, cold, lack of adequate ventilation, or lack of food or water, or other circumstances that could reasonably be expected to cause suffering, disability, or death to the animal.
While the ocean breezes of Santa Barbara may not cause the animals to die, getting fined or arrested for this violation is probably the last thing the woman needs at this point.
From the article at the very end: "My daughter especially is very unhappy. Sometimes she'll cry, and she'll call and say, 'Mom, I just can't stand it that you are living in a car,' " Harvey said. "I'll say, 'You know what? This is OK for right now, because I'm safe, I'm healthy, the dogs are doing OK, and I have a job, and things will get better.' "
dharmagirl, "American Beauty" is one of my favorites. The scene that sticks with me is when that young man describes watching a plastic bag being spun around by the wind as the most beautiful thing he has ever recorded.
I've thought about that scene and tried to interpret it. I think that on one level the story is saying that no matter how ugly or unhappy our life can be there is still beauty in this world to be found. Or on a story plot level the young man is so desperate for hope in his world that the sight of a plastic bag animated by nature is beautiful for its simplicity. Or maybe the bag and the wind show that we really don't have much control over the circumstances of our lives.
Why would you not want/allow your children to help you?
Most parents do so much for children. When you have adult children and you're older, why wouldn't you want to be able to count on an adult child for help?
I help my mom w/out her even asking.
This is sad b/c she wants to do this, live in her car. There are so many options out there.
I know sometimes life happens. Maybe when you plan for some things, it doesn't always go as you want. This is just the worse thing that can happen and to not ask family for help is just dumb. Sorry.
would you rather be healthy and living in a car or real sick and living in a mansion. no brainer. The car wins!
the dogs make the car safer. get s shower in a gym or at the beach. if it were a little bigger, an rv, nobody would have a problem with the sleeping space. it's not the fact that it's a motor vehicle, but the smallness of the vehicle? One of my regrets in life is that i didn't bum around more. i spent a while homeless and bouncing around, but i wished it had gone on longer...67's kinda old for that but not if you're in good repair...
Drink Heavily.
where does she go to the bathroom?
Hi Harry,
American Beauty was such a wonderful, thought provoking film. I was going through a divorce when it came out (1999). My emotions were pretty raw and the film touched me on many levels.
The bag scene made an impact on me, too...to me it seemed like a "stop and smell the roses" sort of thing...how many people really notice something as simple and mundane as a bag flitting around on a windy day? Most of us are in constant motion and dont take time out of our lives to really notice the little things.
I liked your interpretation about the bag and the wind and lack of control. I've found that to be the case in many cases. We like to think we are so smart and have things so under control and then one day, some random, unexpected, never-imagined thing happens and - BAM!- your entire "reality" goes up in smoke...or you end up living in your car.
Jeez, everybody wake up and smell the looming crises. There will be many more stories like this in the near future. Eventually using the "it's probably their fault anyway" will not work anymore. You'll eventually have to look up and point your finger at the utter criminal mismanagement of our economic-political system. Let me give you a hint. They are practicing their "this was completely unforeseeable" speech as we speak.
We will need a little more compassion or this will be a very ugly place to live.
dharmagirl, nice to meet someone who enjoyed AB. I like your comments about the random and unexpected. So very true.
There are very few people who end up homeless at 67 who got there after making nothing but financially prudent choices their whole lives. I'd need to hear her whole life story, and from more than one source, before I'd swallow that line.
And if you make some financially imprudent choices, then you pay the price. You stack up good choices like crazy all your life to try to offset the occasional bad luck or bad choice. That's the way the world works. Ignoring that is like trying to ignore gravity - it doesn't work out.
Patient renter in OC
To those of you who think that no one really wants to be homeless, I invite you to read "The Glass Castle" By Jeanette Walls.
My wife's mother worked until she was 85. She lived in a trailer until she could get into elderly housing. She made a lot of bad choices in life, but she was never homeless. She also didn't insist on living in the most expensive community possible. Most, not all, homeless people are homeless because of the decisions they make every waking minute of every day. Some of them can be considered insane, some are just incredibly lazy. It is not a problem government can solve, short of incarceration, and that would be illegal and immoral.
Brutus, I loved "The Glass Castle". However, what you did not mention is that the author's mother was, indeed, mentally ill. I've heard Jeanette Walls lecture about the book and she discusses this. The mother is now living with Jeanette and her husband in a trailer on their horse farm. Jeanette harbors no bitterness or ill will towards her mother which I find to be rather remarkable...to survive an abusive situation and still find compassion.
I think your comments about the homeless are insensitive. I'm no expert, but I believe many homeless people suffer from severe forms of mental illness, rather than "laziness" as you put it.
My understanding is that homelessness can be a vicious circle. Mental illness isolates people from any friends/family who might want to help, and then the lack of medical care/medication just exacerbates the situation.
I think we will see many more stories like this and, while it may not happen to YOU and your financially prudent self, you may find yourself with a friend or family member who is homeless. Will you then look at them and make snarky comments about their poor planning skills?
As we all know, many people in their 40s and 50s are in total DENIAL about the importance of retirement savings. During the boom, some of my friends and colleagues smugly referred to their homes as their "retirement account."
As these folks approach their twilight years, with only Social Security (if it's still around), they may be forced to live in their cars and share Alpo sandwiches with Fido, too. I think the "aftershocks" of the housing meltdown are only in their infancy...
Submitted by HarryBosch on May 20, 2008 - 3:32pm.
Believe me, those of you in your twenties and thirties, you will learn the meaning of these expressions at some point in your lives. Misfortune comes to those who plan and to those who don't plan. You will see it happen to some of your friends, family and relatives over the course of time. Maybe it won't happen to you. But believe me, if you can try to understand that it could happen to you, through no fault of your own, then you will be a wiser and humbler person than you are now.
Well, said Harry. Let's have some sympathy people.
I think its harsh to view her plight as her own fault. Her finances could have been crippled by medical bills. Not everyone is fortuante enough to have medical insurance. Perhaps she hasn't always worked because she was a stay at home mom. Perhaps her ex-husband screwed her and took all their money overseas. If she was working, she may have been "providing" for her children as a single mother and therefore never able to save much. Perhaps she suffered from a horrible financial advisor who invested poorly and left her with little. How can anyone be callous enough to say that its her fault she's in the position she's in and deserves to live in a car for her stupid choices? Have you never made a stupid choice in your life or been struck my misfortune?
Perhaps she's staying in SB because she wants to be near her 19 year old daughter. When you're down and out, I think you'd want support in the form of love. For her to just pick up and move somewhere less expensive and away from the only love and support it sounds like she has, might be quite difficult.
I think its easy for those of us sitting in our comfortable homes / glass towers to cast stones. Perhaps we should all stop living on our high horses and reach out to help others. If you're too selfish to help others, at least have some sympathy.
Here's another article.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/eco...
And I thought I was gonna have it rough for being a tech working in the 30ies. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in the 50ies and in tech.
Morale of the story to tech workers: get busy being self-employed. It's only a matter of time before that person you read about (and some of you that snicker) becomes you.
Out of a job and out of luck at 54
A growing number of older workers are losing their jobs as the economy weakens. And many are having a harder time landing new positions.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Too young to retire, too old to get a new job. That's how many older workers are feeling these days.
While it's not easy to land a job in this weak economy, older workers are in a particularly tough spot. Corporate downsizings are hitting this group hard, with many companies looking to shed the higher-paid positions these employees often occupy. Even worse, older job seekers are discovering the search is even rougher as many employers shy away from hiring those closer to retirement than to the start of their careers.
The downsizings come at a bad time for older workers. Not only can't they afford to retire, but many were counting on beefing up their 401(k) accounts in the years before they exit the labor force. Compounding the problem is the slumping stock market, which has left them with a deflated 401(k) cushion to draw on while looking for a new post.
"There are tons of folks out there who cannot afford to live once they've faced that involuntary layoff," said Renee Ward, founder of Seniors4Hire.org, an online community for older workers and companies looking to hire them. "And it takes them a little longer to find a suitable position."
Facing downsizing
To be sure, workers of all ages are suffering as companies trim their payrolls. The national unemployment rate has jumped to 5%, up from 4.5% a year ago.
But older workers are increasingly getting the corporate ax these days. Among the unemployed age 55 to 64, nearly 42% had been fired or laid off, up from 32.2% a year ago, according to federal statistics for April. The figures are even grimmer for those age 65 and older, with 23.5% getting laid off, up from 10.4% in 2007. These older workers saw the largest percentage point increases of any age group during that time period.
Overall, the unemployment rate for those age 55 to 64 stayed relatively stable at 2.7%, largely because fewer workers opted to leave their jobs or re-enter the job search. The rate for those age 65-plus ticked up a bit to 3.5% as more also chose to resign.
"When the market goes down, the more senior people are the first to go," said Ellen Gottlich, president of Forty Plus of New York, which helps executives and professionals find new jobs.
After they get the pink slip, older workers spend more time on the unemployment line. Many lack the skills to search for jobs in today's online world and to craft resumes and cover letters, experts say. And too often, they are told they are overqualified.
Take Dale Booth. Since being laid off from a computer business systems analyst post at National City Corp. in October, the 54-year-old resident of Medina, Ohio, has sent out hundreds of resumes. He's gone to recruiting agencies and even had his daughter forward his resume to the human resources manager at the hospital where she works.
So far, he's had only one interview. About 90% of the time, he gets no response and the other 10% he gets a form letter thanking him for applying.
His age, he thinks, is a factor because companies are concerned older workers won't stick around and have higher medical costs. Also, though he has told recruiters his salary requirement is $50,000 - $35,000 less than he made at National City - Booth thinks employers view him as a costly hire.
"At my age and experience, there's an expectation that they'll have to pay me more," said Booth, who is married with three grown daughters.
Hunting hard to find new job
It took those age 55 and older an average of 21.1 weeks to land a new job in 2007, about five weeks longer than their younger counterparts, according to AARP.
"Clearly older workers will be more adversely affected because of the time it takes to transition into another job," said Deborah Russell, AARP's director of workforce issues.
During the recession of the early 1990s, older workers were hit hard by mass layoffs. Concerned this is happening again, AARP is reaching out to companies conducting the large-scale downsizings and giving them tip sheets to distribute to older workers. The handouts aim to help workers navigate today's job market by explaining search methods such as online employment boards and the importance of networking.
Many older workers are taking jobs below their pay scale because it's all they can find, said Ward of Seniors4Hire, which is experiencing a greater demand for its services. She's seen an experienced telecom worker making $65,000 a year accepting a customer service position in satellite companies making $11 an hour.
While Ward can find companies willing to hire older workers, many of her listings are for part-time jobs, sales positions, retail clerks or customer service reps. Even then, it can be hard for these job seekers to get hired.
"A lot of people are told they are overqualified," she said.
While some may think those older than age 55 can just retire, it's not a viable option for many, said Steven Sass, co-author of "Working Longer," a new book looking at delaying retirement. Many Americans simply can't afford to stop working that young, he said.
"Most people don't have enough money," Sass said. "If they are going to have a comfortable retirement, they are really going to have to stay in the labor force. But it's tough to get a job when you're old...especially in a recession."
Chuck Dunn knows he can't afford to retire. The 56-year-old has had no choice but to liquidate his retirement account after losing his product development job with a high-end electronics manufacturer in October. Now he's considering selling his house before he becomes a foreclosure statistic.
But Dunn also can't find a job, despite sending out several hundred resumes. He's contacted those he knows in the industry, scoured online jobs sites and worked with his local employment commission with no success.
"This is very frustrating for me since I am in my middle 50s and was trying to save money for my retirement, not destroy my savings," said Dunn, a bachelor who lives in Holly Springs, N.C.
selfportrait
----- Sour grapes for everyone!
Ageism is a huge problem. Unfortunately for the boomers, retiring is not an option as stated by the article above and by many other studies. For many, the one fundamental reason they cannot retire and cannot survive financially without a "full time" job with health care benefits is for the health care alone.
I hope that our society will look to address ageism with the huge population of baby boomers as age discrimination is no better than discrimination on sex, race, or religion. However I think its one of the least talked about compared to the other forms of discriminiation.
For those who think well I'm in my 20s or 30s and why should I care now about ageism? Not only may it affect you very personally in the next decade or so, but it may affect you in the form of having to take care of your parents in some form or another. If your parents live to be 85 or 90 and have sporadic employment starting in their mid or late 50s, how many of them can afford healthcare until Medicare kicks in? Even after Medicare and Social Security kick in, how many can afford the cost of living for 30-40 years and possibly buying supplemental insurance?
I'm one of her sons who live in England and this story does not suprise me.She left me as a 6 year old kid and i did'nt see her again until i was 16 when she came back to england to see me and my brother, her other son.Luckily we had a good dad who looked after us as we grew up.Every time i have heard from her she has lost her job and moved to a new home. I don't speak to her anymore as the last time i saw her she tried to cause friction between me and my wife.My brother also asked her to leave his house when she last came over as i did 3 days later due to her demands and wants. She deserves to be living in a car as living in a $1000,000 dollar condo is obvoiusly way above her means.Me and my brother where lucky to get a card on our birthdays.
I feel sorry for the dogs.