San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

Toyota makes great GM cars that are like appliances :)

Personally, if it weren't for the reliability issues, I'd recommend a Passat or CC or Jetta over a Camry any day. Especially currently there is a huge markdown on the CC...Top end models are marked down like $8k+....

The CC is no near the class of a Camry. Price wise, it's more of a IS/ES/G/TL price range. I'd pick any of those 4 over the CC any day. Passat is priced much closer to the Camry, but the 2.0L Turbo is priced like a V6 Camry. That's a pretty big HP difference, I'd personally pick an Accord over a Camry but if you must have the #1 American built car, then the Camry is alright :-).

I always thought that German cars are better engineered and as reliable as Japanese cars. Am I wrong?

After having both, I can say their interior built quality was better but not anymore. In term of reliability, I have to say the Japanese win this one hands down. It's a no contest when it comes to repair cost outside of warranty too. What do you mean engineered?

You betcha.....

You never ever buy a german car because you want a reliable car.

Historically, the advantages of a German car (aside from some status tooting people) is generally fit and finish is top notch. The interiors are done well, the designs are innovative, and the driving characteristics are good, my opinion...

In modern days, Japanese brands have caught up, and arguably are better in some cases, in that they offer comparable performance and superior reliability to Germans. Hence the luxury arms Infiniti,Lexus, and Acura (*cough* ha ha, ok at least Honda tries)...Still, some specific german cars are still the benchmark, such as the Bimmer 3 and M.

Pricing of CC has cratered...

200hp I-4 CC is like $27k
285hp VR6 CC is like $31k

both pretty well loaded

Camry XLE V6 is like $26k-28k, then Toyota loves to nickel and dime you for every stinking option.

Also, VW throws in free maintanance for 4 years( I know, you'll need it, heh heh).

Slightly adventurous folks can spend $600 on a ecu upgrade from companies like APR and bump the 2.0T into a 254hp/297 and still get gas mileage that beats V6's.

However, you do have to deal with VW's "issues"

In my own experience after driving German cars for many years and Japanese cars for a few years most German cars were extremely reliable albeit more expensive to maintain. The German cars were also peppier and more fun to drive.

Based on carsdirect.com, fully loaded price for the follow:

CC V6 FWD: $34,845
CC Luxury FWD: $34,851
CC Sport FWD: $26,625 (Seems to not have Bluetooth, or backup camera).
Camry XLE V6 w/Navigation: $29,204
Camry XLE I4 w/Navigation: $27,732

G37S: $35,193
TL 3.5 w/Technology FWD: $34,366

So, fully loaded CC V6 FWD or G37S? There's no doubt the 2.0T responds very well to mods. However, the CC 2.0T Luxury FWD is still priced about the same as the G37S. Even w/ the chip, it's still underpowered compared to the G37S.

Were your German cars and Japanese cars in the same price range?

Um, yes g37s at that price. But, i thought fully loaded, g37 is closer to $37k without the 4wheel active steer system.

Also, carsdirect is showing a fully loaded XLEv6 with nave at $32.6k and the I4 at $30k or $31k depending on whether you want the 18" wheel option. I guess as an exercise, we would need to go down and compare if "fully loaded"
is equivalent.

Supposedly, it's also showing a CC AWD for $33k (without nav).

My less than pleasant experience with purchasing an avalon for a relative taught me that Toyota's are great value to buy in base form only...They start to ding you went it comes to selecting options. Especially the way they package options together often means you have to pay for stuff you don't want in order to get something else. In Southern CA for instance, they love to build cars with heated seats and make it part of an equipment packaging. The other thing I don't like about Toyota (at least in L.A.) is that the sales folks are pretty sleazy at almost all the dealerships I went to.

Anyway, when I buy a car, it's usually either fully loaded or fully stripped and never in between.

I added all the package for the G37S except for 4 wheel steering. Adding that will raise the price to $36,795.

You're more familiar w/ Toyota than I do, I'm just going off what I see on Carsdirect. I could be wrong. You're right, it's more fair to compare the Camry w/ 18" wheels, which would bring it up another $1650. I didn't add remote start or catback since those options weren't available for the CC>

Carsdirect...But frankly, I'm not looking at the options that closely, since I would never buy either cars mentioned...i just like wasting bandwidth shooting the breeze while I wait for my damn build to finish....Not really a big fan of toyota...actually, I really don't like them....Nissan/Honda would be more my cup of tea. I just have too many tools/time invested in my Krautmobiles to ever switch over

Small, anectdotal evidence of German fit/finish. My old roommate had a Jetta she bought new. We were roommates for over 5 years. The car didn't break down - but pieces would randomly fall off. The trim pieces on the outside would fall off - sometimes causing a hazard as they could get wrapped up in the wheels/axles etc. Not fun on roadtrips. It didn't break down.. just had pieces fall of bit by bit.

My honda civic was as peppy as her jetta... but that might have had more to do with my honda being a stick, vs her automatic.

Was never a fan of Toyota either, except for the Supra. My family does own 2 Camry but they're both based I4, so it was a great deal at the time and runs great for 10-11 years so far. I'd much prefer Nissan/Honda as well, since they make cars I want to buy. VW is too expensive for what you get I think. But I guess that applies to all German. You do get the prestige though. Japanese brands still can't carry the same weight.