San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis

Search old posts, there have been lots of discussions in the past regarding courthouse steps auctions. Haven't seen the scenario you describe, post an address and we can collectively figure out the reason or the back story. One possible explanation is that a property with a 500k market value might have 150k in 2nd or 3rd mortgages and be behind a few years in taxes and hoa fees. When buying at the courthouse, you have settle with all the liens, so 300k to the bank and 200k to everyone else doesn't end up as good of a deal. If the bank takes it back, they settle with the other liens (taxes for retail but often less to the others) and then sell on the open market. Reo buyers usually buy clean title, not so at the steps. Other screaming deals at the steps are cracked slabs or structural issues. Anyway you slice it, you gotta come with cash, no loans for the steps, so there are some deals to be had but there are many bidders, so if the others pass on a half off market property, there is probably a reason.

To ad onto tg's statement of "...so if the others pass on a half off market property, there is probably a reason.", most investors out there who are bidding at the steps would be happy w/ 20% ROI for clean flippable houses. Based on SD R's comments, it seems like many are now shooting for as low as 10% ROI. So, those that are selling 50% off fair market price must have some kind of issues that caused other investors to stay clear from it.

AN the one I was talking about that went on Penrod last week for 359k is gonna open at.... 420k on the MLS soon. Are you kidding me? No way comps support that but the agent thinks he can get it. So at 420k, if he offers 2.5% plus another 1% for closing costs he is gonna net maybe 45k? That is if he gets full price. I will not believe it if he does but ya never know. Anyways the home is vacant and that is actually a nice premium when purchasing at trustee sales cuz getting the owner or worse a tenant out is time consuming and time is money. Also the home is in decent shape, not bad at all, the yard is dead but you never know. I personally had a hard time seeing the home even sell for 400k. It is also only 2 homes off of Flanders... anyways this will really be a stretch... no doubt the guy will make money off of it, he is a regular at the trustee sales... say he only makes 20k... so that would be about 6-7% on his money right? However if he closes and gets the cash less then 60 days after he bought it that is not bad for a 60 day investment. I can see where he is coming from I guess. Although even for him to make 20k it is gonna be tight.

SD R, a 1366 sq-ft in that area, late last year, I would say he's dreaming if he thinks he can get $420k for it. However, anything can happen right now. Maybe he's banking on this comp: 7506 Flanders Dr, San Diego, CA. It's slightly bigger but it's on Flanders and it needed some work. Maybe he also thinks the market got even better in the last couple of months. Anything can happen, I guess, but definitely the best of luck to him selling at $420k. It must show really really well to get $420k I think. I personally think he'll get around $390-410k for it if it shows well. If interior was remodeled, it shouldn't cost too much for him to put some sod on there ($2-3k max). It'll look presentable again. Once it hit the MLS w/ pictures, we'll see if he has a chance at $420k. If it looks as nice as this one, he just might get $420k, since this just closed for $435k.

I'm curious about this part. Suppose you bought a place off the steps, and it had a 200k second on it. Essentially, you just bought that second, correct? Would the holder of the second be able to then demand 200k from you?

If the bank took it back, wouldn't the second get wiped out? Why does it get wiped out when the bank takes it back but not when a third party takes it?

I think what TG is saying is correct, at least I've heard this before, but I'm just trying to understand this better.

Also, I've heard that if you buy a place on the courthouse steps, there could be other liens that you don't even know about. For instance, a contractor who did some work on the property but didn't get paid for it, could be in the process of filing the lien. The lien might not show up for a month or two after the auction, but when it did you would be libel for that. Anyone know if this is true or just internet misinformation?

Thanks,

XBoxBoy

Xbox -

Hopefully a few quick answers...

When you buy at the steps you are buying whatever is foreclosing. So if it is the second foreclosing then you still are subordinate to the first. If it is the first foreclosing the second is wiped out. So if it was the first foreclosing the second is screwed. No he cannot come to you for anything.

The second gets wiped out no matter who takes it.

Yes there are other liens you may have to deal with. Property taxes and IRS liens are the most common. Other issues may involve incomplete work, say the owner was in the middle of a permitting process or something of that nature. The other issue you brought up are mechanics liens. You need to check dates on the mechanics liens to see if they will be subordinate to the first foreclosing.

I don't think you can find a sale at Trustee's valued @500k for 300K these days. There is either something wrong with the property or this is a second position loan. Also the estimated value might be off. There are historical sales in the past year that had margins like this. There was a home purchased for 380K that is currently pending for 750K. I'm not sure what needed to be fixed or if appliances were missing, but this was a great deal. For every great deal there are 90 decent purchases and 9 over bids. The over bids are happening more then ever.
Just reviewing the last Trustees sale on 9/4/09, I can find at least one over bid.
1460 Canoe Creak Way, Chula Vista 91915 purchased for 470K. Forclosureradar has it valued at Mid 500s. This property is 3638sqft. I have not looked at this property, so it may have great curb appeal.
There is a comp that sold for 455K on the MLS (1471 Canoe Creek 3404sqft) on 6/17/09. The market has improved since then, but I think there is too much risk to buy anything higher then a comp sold on the MLS to the public. This part of Chula Vista is very confusing to the untrained eye. There are 3600+ sqft homes within a couple of blocks that sell for 650K min. This unfortunately is not one of them.

1460 Canoe Creek Way does have great curb appeal. I could be wrong about this property and the purchase price. The investor should make a profit on this property. It has enough upgrades and is one of the better homes in this neighborhood. The investor must have done their homework on this one.