I've seen a lot of advertising on TV for these guys, and if anyone has dealt with them personally, please reply to this thread and let me know how you feel...
I've heard these ads on the radio. Basically they guarantee that they can sell your house or they'll buy it from you, or something silly like that.
I suspect - "suspect" being the operative word - that they take your listing and give you the guarantee only if it applies to a price that they dictate, which will be below the market. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. Nothing else really makes sense.
On that note, if you've got a 3,000 square foot house in La Jolla, I GUARANTEE that I can sell it for $300,000 or I'll buy it from you. Any takers?
Submitted by SD Realtor on October 16, 2007 - 3:26pm.
I dealt with them on two instances...
1 - There was a buyer of mine lastyear who liked a Battiata home. We submitted an offer but the seller didn't take it.. We came in about 5% under asking. The home never sold. Matt (Battiata) was very nice to deal with over the phone and I hold no beef against him.
2 - I had some clients in Vista who used him to sell thier home. It never sold so they called me. I took the listing and priced it significantly lower then the price was when Battiata had the listing and the home sold. I also got to have the listing in the spring where Battiata had it through the winter and fall. Also Matt was VERY nice to me and let me use the same pictures he took (which he did not have to do) on the listing. I would also surmise that he did indeed advise the sellers to lower the price while he had the listing and they were most likely stubborn so most likely no fault to him. So they were sufficiently softened up by the bad market when they came to me.
So overall my dealings were positive with Battiata. In both instances I worked with Matt.
If every seller you had was willing to sell at a 5% discount to the cheapest subset of the most recent 2-months' sales comps (legitimate, recent comps - not comps from a year ago), on average how long do you think it would take to sell these houses?
Maybe I'm nuts, but I bet that homes that are legitimately priced 5% below the "real" market will move within a few months despite this crappy market. My suspicion is that everyone crowds around the comps (many of which are old) - with little or no discount - and they just chase the market down instead of getting a little bit ahead of it and getting their property sold. Is this what you're seeing or am I nuts?
Submitted by SD Realtor on October 16, 2007 - 4:01pm.
Good post...
My answer is kind of lame but it depends on the submarket. If the home is in glutted places like Eastlake or downtown condoland... A 5% hit may not get you there but after a few of them yes you will sell... If it is a place that is more desireable then yeah standing out from the crowd, and assuming your home is a true comparable would in my opinion get it sold much faster.
Yes you are right it is clumpy at the recent comp level. Sellers cling to 1 or 2% like it is make or break. I would agree that in most cases, it is a good idea to take a little bad medicine now to get sold and get out of dodge. Unfortunately most sellers have emotional attachments, feelings of entitlement that they should get what thier neighbor got in 2005, depression about the market and other disconnects from reality... as other symptoms that dictate a need for either psychological counseling or just a kick in the butt from thier high school PE coach who shouts get off the matt, take a salt pill, and suck it up and do the right thing!
Submitted by SD Realtor on October 16, 2007 - 4:01pm.
Good post...
My answer is kind of lame but it depends on the submarket. If the home is in glutted places like Eastlake or downtown condoland... A 5% hit may not get you there but after a few of them yes you will sell... If it is a place that is more desireable then yeah standing out from the crowd, and assuming your home is a true comparable would in my opinion get it sold much faster.
Yes you are right it is clumpy at the recent comp level. Sellers cling to 1 or 2% like it is make or break. I would agree that in most cases, it is a good idea to take a little bad medicine now to get sold and get out of dodge. Unfortunately most sellers have emotional attachments, feelings of entitlement that they should get what thier neighbor got in 2005, depression about the market and other disconnects from reality... as other symptoms that dictate a need for either psychological counseling or just a kick in the butt from thier high school PE coach who shouts get off the matt, take a salt pill, and suck it up and do the right thing!
Submitted by sdrealtor on October 16, 2007 - 6:30pm.
No personal experience with him but in general i think the mega agents provide very poor service to their clients. They just collect listings and dont provide complete analysis of what is going on in the market. The work is generally pushed down to the least capable person possible. You never get to talk to the figure head. the truth is most of the claims thye make and brilliant marketing systems are pre-packaged systems created by someone acroos the country that are being implemented according to the creators directions. Most of what they offer has perceived value to clients but most agents understand it has very little real value. I just don't see how someone can possibly provide good service to 5o clients.
As an example, one of these guys up by me is collecting listings. He takes out full page ads in the U-T every Sunday claiming "it's not the market, it's the marketing". Last time I checked, he had about 50 listings and ZERO of them in escrow!
For the record, Battiata's doing better. He has 61 active listings and 10 in escrow. Most of the properties he has in escrow are short sales and I suspect half of them wont make it to the finish line. He's closed 5 sales in the last 60 days. Also 90% of his business are low end properties.
Submitted by djrobsd on October 17, 2007 - 11:42am.
Thought I'd share my experience from last night, and thanks for all the responses so far...
One of their agents showed up at my door to talk to me about listing my house with them. He was dressed in a 3 piece suit, sharp as a tack, and carried a fancy tablet PC with him.
He gave me the whole sales pitch again about the Battiata way of selling real estate, and told me some interesting things about their company:
-They need to sell 8 homes a month to pay for their advertising expenses!!!
-They don't put flyers out
-They don't do open houses
-They don't do broker caravans
Granted, none of these things usually sell a house, but I guess when you're a real estate factory, you don't have time to do open houses, or put flyers out, so to me "it doesn't sell the home" is just a cop out for being too lazy to do it.
All that aside, we get to the contract part. He starts getting a little put pushy, like he might be in a hurry to get to another apointment or what have you, and that's where I really start to feel uncomfortable.
I asked him "please email me the contract, i'll look it over and let you know if I decide to go with your company"... At which point, he begins asking "So what are your reservations"... "Are there any other agents you're talking to?" "What would I need to do to ease your concerns"....
I then asked him if I could see the contract, and so he pulls it up on his tablet PC. He says "it's just standard boiler plate real estate contract material", and starts scrolling through the DRE contract. I notice, however, on "Other Compensation to Broker", they have a $695 "Transaction Coordinator Fee" to be paid by Seller. He quickly scrolled past that part, and then skips through the pages real fast, and he gets to the end, and there is a "Seller may not cancel this agreement prior to 90 days. Cancellation of this agreement will result in a $995 fee to cover Broker's expenses."
He quickly Put a big X over that and initialed it, and then he was all "See, I already made it easier for you by removing the cancellation clause"... And so then I proceed to ask him about the transaction coordinator fee, and he gives me this huge song and dance about "you need to protect yourself from getting sued, and the transaction coordinator is there to make sure all the ducks are in a row to make sure the transaction closes smoothly and to make sure all the paperwork is filed correctly so they can't sue you later".
That was the biggest WAD of BS I've ever heard in my life. First of all, it's a realtor's job to be the transaction coordinator, or at least someone in their office is. That's what the 3% commission to them pays for! Secondly, it doesn't matter WHO handles the transaction or HOW the transaction is handled. If a buyer decides to sue you because of something you didn't disclose, a transaction coordinator is not going to prevent or stop that from happening. And what's to say their transaction coordinator doesn't make mistakes or slip up from time to time.
So, in summary, I felt like i was being taken for a ride by a fast talking salesman, for that reason I would never consider using them to sell my house.
Submitted by Raybyrnes on October 17, 2007 - 12:45pm.
djrobsd
I can see that if you have a problem with a fee, letting the representative know but sounds to me like there is a confidence problem here.
This guy is a sales representative. His job is to close sales not to gather up informaiton. Yo0u should have done that on your own in a pre sales process. Talking to people that have used the service. Checking the BBB. What is he suppose to say when you want to look material over, OK I'll check back in with you. Your comment was a complete cop out. I'd fire that guy if he that was his approach. Youer reluctance to sign was the fee structure. How stating "I do not like the fee structure and feel that it is not an industry practice. This give me concern about using your services."
You mentioned in your previous post that they guarantee a sale. What was the disclaimer on that. Isn't that the real reason you were meeting with the rep.
According to every poster on this site this is a bad market to sell in. A buyer is going to need real convincing. How would you feel if you selected an agent who each time he took a good prospect to your home left thte sale on the table becasue he wsa shy or time to ask for the deal. This does not suggest they should be rude and if this gentleman was than that is uncalled for but if he is a little pushy than that is not a bad sign but probably a good one. If it was an interview process it would be precisely what would have me go with a rep as oppose to not going with one.
Sounds to me like you have that type of personality that whenever you walk off the car lot you are still looking to make sure you weren't taken rather than enjoying the ride.
Instead of focusing on the $600 fee I would be focusing on the more important issue of selling my home for top dollar. If you don't think that they can sell your home I would be reluctant to sign a contract. This would hold true for a discounter the same as a full service person. If on the other hand you are electing not to do business because a sales rep is doing his job of probing to find out the reason for resistance than I think you need to prioritize your decision making criteria.
Submitted by djrobsd on October 17, 2007 - 1:44pm.
First of all, I don't think you understand what my beef with this guy is, let me summarize.
He stated something along the lines of "it's just a standard DRE contract", but yet there was a $695 fee in there that if you did not scan closely with your eyes, you would probably miss, and then be subject to pay. That's not a "Standard" fee in the real estate business, it's something typically found with a discount broker, not a full service broker that's charging 6% commission.
To me, if a realtor is going to make a promise on TV such as "you can cancel at any time if you're not satisfied" which is what he USED to say, but I don't think he's saying any more, and then he automatically puts a $995 cancellation fee in his contract, he's contradicting himself, and should not be given the time of day.
I do business the old fashioned way, which is you disclose everything up front to the person you are doing business with, and not try and hide anything. If you tell me "it's just the standard contract", and then you add in some hidden costs to the "Standard" contract, then you're not very ethical.
So for me, this is not just the fact that he was pushy, it's also an ethical question. If they are this unethical in signing a deal with me, then what are they going to do during the sales and negotiation process?
And for the record, I did tell him I wasn't willing to pay the fee, and he said "if that's your only concern, i'll remove it."
Submitted by Raybyrnes on October 17, 2007 - 2:01pm.
Seems like you are contradicting yourself. The contract is stating right upfront that they have charges. Doesn't seem to be hidden in any fine print here because it jumped off the page and you questioned him on it. You didn't feel this was reasonable and negotiated this out. Sounds like you are doing smart business.
I still don't see anything in your statement about their capability of selling your home. I thought they had a guarantee to sell or they would buy it from you. Still seems like you are focused on a negotiable fee.
If I were a home seller right now I would be offering an extra 1 or 2 % to get a home sold especially if I was firm on my askig price. The bottom line is I am either going to come in lower by 5% than comparable homes on the market or I am going to generate traffic by incentivizing the agents to sell my home.
Standard is a relative term. Standard lighting use to be the sun, then was a candle and today is a lightbulb. I would reccommend being flexible and open minded. If you don't think their system is going to work then I would take a pass.
You didn't know this repfrom a hole in the wall. You don;'t know the realators who post on this sight but you ahve a ton of dialog from their posts. Why wouldn't you call on them if you want something "tandard" Most people start the hiring with a referral.
Submitted by Critter on October 17, 2007 - 2:09pm.
Re: the transaction coordinator fee, I just got a reimbursement check for this very fee from a legal company that specializes in class action lawsuits.
The RE company was Coldwell Banker. Everyone who closed escrow with them during a certain time frame (I believe it was two years) got a $200 refund check, whether the fee was part of their escrow paperwork or not.
I agree with the OP that such fees should be part of the Realtor's commission and not an add-on.
Submitted by Raybyrnes on October 17, 2007 - 2:24pm.
I don't like fees any more than the next person. But there are different interest here. Plenty of home sellers are looking for discounts, rebates etc. I am not going to bag on them for doing so and if it is agreed to by the selling agent then good for the customer and bad for the agent. Likewise if a realator has a better system for selling a home and wants to ask for aaddional compensation then good for the seller and bad for the client.
Here is my question to you. If someone guaranteed to move you home in 10 days or pay you upfront full asking price for the home what is that worth to you. If they said 6% plus 1000$ fee, in this market I would probably pay. 2 year ago not a chance.
Submitted by djrobsd on October 17, 2007 - 2:32pm.
Hahaha, I'd pay the $1000 fee!!! But they aren't buying people's homes any more. The only time they will "Buy" a home is if someone wants to buy your home that already has another house, they will "make a guaranteed offer" on their home so they can buy yours. My guess is they probably offer 10-20% below the appraised value so they don't loose their shirts on that guarantee.
You mention if a realtor has a better system then they deserve to charge fees. I agree to a certain extent, but I think that TV and newspaper ads have deceived people into thinking that Battiata can sell your house. The truth is in the numbers, and after looking at MLS data for him, for every home he sells there is another one he doesn't. So, my theory is that he just takes as many listings as he can within reason, and hopes that a certain percentage of them sell.
To me, this could work, if the right buyer for my home happened to be watching his TV commercial at the time, but if not, I think going with him would be a bad thing because he wouldn't be networking with other agents and calling all of his past clients to try and sell my home. When you have 60 listings you don't have time for all that, but when you're a well established and respected realtor with a small number of listings, with a lot of contacts in the business, I think that can go a lot further in getting a home sold....
Just my theory of course, I'm by no means an expert here. ;)
Submitted by Raybyrnes on October 17, 2007 - 2:48pm.
This is an entirely differnt story. I am with you here. I count my coins and if they are looking for a fee, and you have no reason to think that they are doing anything differnt than the next guy or if the sales agent hasn't conveyed the value add, than I'm in your camp. I think it was a different psoter who stated the guareanted to buy you home so to me that seems like a pretty enticing piece to explore. Hopefully I didn't ruffle your feathers here. I think I have a better idea of the situation now.
Submitted by Rustico on October 17, 2007 - 4:26pm.
"When you have 60 listings you don't have time for all that, but when you're a well established and respected realtor with a small number of listings, with a lot of contacts in the business, I think that can go a lot further in getting a home sold...."
djrobsd The odds that the agent you list with has somebody that he or she knows who will buy your house near the price you want is very slim. It does happen sometimes. Mostly the MLS and the price sells the house. There are other ways as long as the price is right and you can get some exposure. All the mystique and hype are to be taken with a grain of salt. That is mostly about Realtors trying to compete for your attention and has nothing to do with selling a house.
And...as long as I am butting in. Ray you kind of suggested that the seller look at a Realtor on this blog. It almost seemed like an admonishment. I think all the Realtors here would understand that people do not always want to include a known entity in their business affairs. Even friends,friends of friends or fellow bloggers. Nice of you to go to bat but it really is something to leave on an "each to his own" basis..IMHO.
Submitted by djrobsd on October 17, 2007 - 4:33pm.
So, Rustico, would it be easy to assume:
1- Home is priced right
2- Good pictures (12) and virtual tour of the home
3- MLS Listing
= Sale of the house regardless of the realtor I hire?
In that case, it doesn't matter if I go with the best realtor in town or the worst...
What are the stats anyway? Does anyone have the stats from the NAR?
Also, can someone with MLS access find out how many of Battiata's listings actually were sold by his office? He seems to tout that he gets 50-100 phone calls a day from his ads, and that he shows buyers his homes first before showing them MLS inventory.... So he should have a lot of homes sold by his MLS ID# right?
Submitted by Rustico on October 17, 2007 - 5:01pm.
1- Home is priced right
2- Good pictures (12) and virtual tour of the home
3- MLS Listing
* that is a good start....
= Sale of the house regardless of the realtor I hire?
Nothing is guaranteed. This also depends as much on you as the Realtor. Are you going to know what good advice is and take it?
"In that case, it doesn't matter if I go with the best realtor in town or the worst..."
I wouldn't go that far. I would say the difference between experienced realtors, in their ability to perform the important aspects of selling you house is minimal, regardless of style or appearances or what kind of office they come from. Selling a house isn't rocket science, as so many here are fond of saying. Even newbies can do a decent job.I suggest you go with whoever you are comfortable with and forget about hype.
Submitted by Rustico on October 17, 2007 - 6:02pm.
"Here are your stats:
55 closed in 2007 of which his team sold 5.
9 currently in escrow of which his team sold 1.
Thats about 10% in both cases."
Those results are actually better than I would expect is average,perhaps their model does have something to do with it and Rustico eats crow. Do you know how it plays out market wide sdr? Based on my own experience I would guestimate 1 in 20. I would think in this market it is going to be even less of a normal occurrence? Stands to reason.
Submitted by Raybyrnes on October 18, 2007 - 6:37am.
Rustico
I'm suggesting that most realators come by referral as do most financial planners, life insurance agents etc. Personally, I am comfortable going with people I don't know because I have a fairly rigid screening process.
I simply suggested that if he was uncomfortable with this company's style, and he wanted more personal intereaction, that he start with someone he might be familiar with. I inferred that if he is meeting with someone he does not have a relationship with currently, that he probably does not have a network of people with real estate expertise. Therefore this site is probably as good as the yellow pages or the park bench to begin a discussion with someone.
Submitted by Rustico on October 18, 2007 - 7:55am.
I am sure your intentions are good Ray. The idea it self is fine.
While on this topic...I am not sure why someone would want to rush out and pay 6% to anyone. Isn't it common knowledge that 3.5-4.5 will do it? There is no need for the listing agent to take more than 2% or offer more that 2.5% to the cooperating broker.
Some people argue that higher commissions gives incentive to the buyer's agent. I don't think it is necessary because buyers have so much information available today and are spoon feeding their agents properties to look at. The agent can hardly refuse to show them because of a lower commission and shouldn't anyway. There could be some effect of lower or higher commissions on cooperating brokers but I doubt it is much.
There have been articles in the paper about money and cars being given to agents to sell certain properties. I personally think that is just wrong.
Submitted by djrobsd on October 18, 2007 - 8:50am.
You know what else is wrong.... My phone started ringing at 7:45am this morning and hasn't stopped... Because my listing expired with my old realtor, and even though she removed the phone # from the listing, they were obviously still able to get my # from somewhere and they won't leave me alone. I won't even answer the phone, but it sucks because now my business is on hold since I use my cell phone for my business too, and I simply don't have time today to field off agents.... Oops, I wish my realtor would have disclosed to me that whatever phone # I give her will be solicited by other realtors.... This is just total BS.
Submitted by SD Realtor on October 18, 2007 - 8:59am.
djrob that totally sucks. Many realtors, including myself NEVER put the phone number for the client in the listing. Even with that said, when I have had listings expire or cancel, my clients tell me that they two are solicited pretty rigorously. Many of these bottom feeders use services to get your phone number. It sucks 100%.
Definitely call your agent or broker and have them get into the expired listing and put in big bold letters DO NOT SOLICIT CLIENT in the remarks field....It may help but since the listing is already expired, it probably will not. You want those comments put in the listing prior to expiration.
Also next listing do not have the agent put your number in the listing. That will help a little bit but not much. Just know, even if you did not have your number posted, it is very likely that these guys would have found it, and you still would be getting solicited. I have had people tell me that agents even came to the house.
Submitted by SDWena on February 13, 2008 - 10:01am.
I am a little late to the game here. But here it goes anyway.
You are right. There are plenty of agents who can get top dollar and do it without using a Seller's fear of penalty. If he doesn't put flyers out, do open houses etc, then what marketing is he doing for you and only you, since you are the one he is charging. In essence, if you cancel, you would be paying for their very large marketing campaign not for your individual marketing services.
I am a Realtor. My belief is that if you sell houses, then why put a cancellation charge in your agreement. You have that clause because you have some expected failure rate. Here's a number: Battiata Group had 182 Expired Listings, 2 Withdrawn Listings and 147 Cancelled Listings and 656 Sold. This data is from the MLS. That is a success rate of 50.4%. You would be better off hiring a new, hungry agent who will work their tail off for you. They would have about a 60% chance of selling your house. In a Seller's market it is very easy to say as an agent you get top dollar. If you really want a great agent find one who sells homes in your neighborhood consistently. Having the most listings doesn't sell your home, having the most closed sales does. You can even ask for their cancelled and expired listings to check there success rate.
My real concern is Short Sales. As an agent I recently put in an offer with "Agent New" at the Battiata Group (I will protect his real identity). Agent New had a great sales price on a Short Sale. After questioning him about the status, he realized that my questions were more in depth and were above his knowledge base. He got angry and hung up saying he was too busy too talk to me. Has anyone seen the new commercials Battiata has? He is now the Short Sale expert. Actually, Agent New is the "expert". All of the short sale listings are under his second agent name. Do you know Agent New hasn't sold a short sale yet. He doesn't even have one in pending status. He did what in our industry or most industries call a "bait and switch". He lowballed the sales price by $200k below market value. Upon questioning, he said he has already received that value from the lender. When asked who the lender was, he said Countrywide. Well, I have worked at least 5 Short Sales with Countrywide and the negotiator will not even talk to you for at least 30 days after receipt of an offer. Well, I thought Agent New had an inside contact. So, because my client really wanted this house I put in the offer against my better judgement. To my suprise, he counted at $150k above his asking price. So much for getting his price point. My buyer walked away. I ask you, did Agent A do his client justice? We are looking at other homes not listed by the Short Sale experts "The Battiata Group".
Anyone who says they are the expert, try again. If you have a Short Sale, find someone who has closed short sale homes. If you find someone who has worked with your lender, even better. Get proof. Ask them for the lender payoff letter. I have worked with 10 different lenders and Service Providers. Each transaction is different because investor guidelines are different. For instance, GMAC gave 2 week approval on one transaction but took 45 days on another, because of the different investor guidelines. Sorry to digress here, but, as you can see I am passionate about Short Sale "experts". Because there is so much at stake here. You have distraught clients who need our help and in many cases are desperate.
Submitted by SDWena on February 13, 2008 - 10:24am.
Dear Critter:
My agent works for Coldwell Banker. I never received a check because I never paid that fee. My realtor always covered my fees for me at the closing.
She said she always had a problem with passing that fee to her clients.
Submitted by sdrealtor on February 18, 2008 - 9:52am.
I just watched Battiata's goofy commercial and decided to see how he's doing these days.
86 active listings......not bad
ZERO listings put into escrow since January 1st
ZERO buyers put into escrow since January 1st.
That's gotta sting!
When business was easy their off the shelf marketing strategies, (they dont create them they buy a sales process that was created by an agent up in Canada) worked. It offers lots of bells and whistles with high perceived value but what it is truly intended to do is generate leads for them not sell your home. I guess we seeing that now.
I've heard these ads on the radio. Basically they guarantee that they can sell your house or they'll buy it from you, or something silly like that.
I suspect - "suspect" being the operative word - that they take your listing and give you the guarantee only if it applies to a price that they dictate, which will be below the market. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. Nothing else really makes sense.
On that note, if you've got a 3,000 square foot house in La Jolla, I GUARANTEE that I can sell it for $300,000 or I'll buy it from you. Any takers?
I dealt with them on two instances...
1 - There was a buyer of mine lastyear who liked a Battiata home. We submitted an offer but the seller didn't take it.. We came in about 5% under asking. The home never sold. Matt (Battiata) was very nice to deal with over the phone and I hold no beef against him.
2 - I had some clients in Vista who used him to sell thier home. It never sold so they called me. I took the listing and priced it significantly lower then the price was when Battiata had the listing and the home sold. I also got to have the listing in the spring where Battiata had it through the winter and fall. Also Matt was VERY nice to me and let me use the same pictures he took (which he did not have to do) on the listing. I would also surmise that he did indeed advise the sellers to lower the price while he had the listing and they were most likely stubborn so most likely no fault to him. So they were sufficiently softened up by the bad market when they came to me.
So overall my dealings were positive with Battiata. In both instances I worked with Matt.
SD Realtor
Dave I agree about your assessment. Anyone that gaurantees a sale in this market has to have a serious hook on the end of that sucker.
SD Realtor
SD Realtor, sdrealtor, and other realtors...
I've got a question for you:
If every seller you had was willing to sell at a 5% discount to the cheapest subset of the most recent 2-months' sales comps (legitimate, recent comps - not comps from a year ago), on average how long do you think it would take to sell these houses?
Maybe I'm nuts, but I bet that homes that are legitimately priced 5% below the "real" market will move within a few months despite this crappy market. My suspicion is that everyone crowds around the comps (many of which are old) - with little or no discount - and they just chase the market down instead of getting a little bit ahead of it and getting their property sold. Is this what you're seeing or am I nuts?
(Sorry to hi-jack the thread.)
Good post...
My answer is kind of lame but it depends on the submarket. If the home is in glutted places like Eastlake or downtown condoland... A 5% hit may not get you there but after a few of them yes you will sell... If it is a place that is more desireable then yeah standing out from the crowd, and assuming your home is a true comparable would in my opinion get it sold much faster.
Yes you are right it is clumpy at the recent comp level. Sellers cling to 1 or 2% like it is make or break. I would agree that in most cases, it is a good idea to take a little bad medicine now to get sold and get out of dodge. Unfortunately most sellers have emotional attachments, feelings of entitlement that they should get what thier neighbor got in 2005, depression about the market and other disconnects from reality... as other symptoms that dictate a need for either psychological counseling or just a kick in the butt from thier high school PE coach who shouts get off the matt, take a salt pill, and suck it up and do the right thing!
SD Realtor
Good post...
My answer is kind of lame but it depends on the submarket. If the home is in glutted places like Eastlake or downtown condoland... A 5% hit may not get you there but after a few of them yes you will sell... If it is a place that is more desireable then yeah standing out from the crowd, and assuming your home is a true comparable would in my opinion get it sold much faster.
Yes you are right it is clumpy at the recent comp level. Sellers cling to 1 or 2% like it is make or break. I would agree that in most cases, it is a good idea to take a little bad medicine now to get sold and get out of dodge. Unfortunately most sellers have emotional attachments, feelings of entitlement that they should get what thier neighbor got in 2005, depression about the market and other disconnects from reality... as other symptoms that dictate a need for either psychological counseling or just a kick in the butt from thier high school PE coach who shouts get off the matt, take a salt pill, and suck it up and do the right thing!
SD Realtor
No personal experience with him but in general i think the mega agents provide very poor service to their clients. They just collect listings and dont provide complete analysis of what is going on in the market. The work is generally pushed down to the least capable person possible. You never get to talk to the figure head. the truth is most of the claims thye make and brilliant marketing systems are pre-packaged systems created by someone acroos the country that are being implemented according to the creators directions. Most of what they offer has perceived value to clients but most agents understand it has very little real value. I just don't see how someone can possibly provide good service to 5o clients.
As an example, one of these guys up by me is collecting listings. He takes out full page ads in the U-T every Sunday claiming "it's not the market, it's the marketing". Last time I checked, he had about 50 listings and ZERO of them in escrow!
For the record, Battiata's doing better. He has 61 active listings and 10 in escrow. Most of the properties he has in escrow are short sales and I suspect half of them wont make it to the finish line. He's closed 5 sales in the last 60 days. Also 90% of his business are low end properties.
Thought I'd share my experience from last night, and thanks for all the responses so far...
One of their agents showed up at my door to talk to me about listing my house with them. He was dressed in a 3 piece suit, sharp as a tack, and carried a fancy tablet PC with him.
He gave me the whole sales pitch again about the Battiata way of selling real estate, and told me some interesting things about their company:
-They need to sell 8 homes a month to pay for their advertising expenses!!!
-They don't put flyers out
-They don't do open houses
-They don't do broker caravans
Granted, none of these things usually sell a house, but I guess when you're a real estate factory, you don't have time to do open houses, or put flyers out, so to me "it doesn't sell the home" is just a cop out for being too lazy to do it.
All that aside, we get to the contract part. He starts getting a little put pushy, like he might be in a hurry to get to another apointment or what have you, and that's where I really start to feel uncomfortable.
I asked him "please email me the contract, i'll look it over and let you know if I decide to go with your company"... At which point, he begins asking "So what are your reservations"... "Are there any other agents you're talking to?" "What would I need to do to ease your concerns"....
I then asked him if I could see the contract, and so he pulls it up on his tablet PC. He says "it's just standard boiler plate real estate contract material", and starts scrolling through the DRE contract. I notice, however, on "Other Compensation to Broker", they have a $695 "Transaction Coordinator Fee" to be paid by Seller. He quickly scrolled past that part, and then skips through the pages real fast, and he gets to the end, and there is a "Seller may not cancel this agreement prior to 90 days. Cancellation of this agreement will result in a $995 fee to cover Broker's expenses."
He quickly Put a big X over that and initialed it, and then he was all "See, I already made it easier for you by removing the cancellation clause"... And so then I proceed to ask him about the transaction coordinator fee, and he gives me this huge song and dance about "you need to protect yourself from getting sued, and the transaction coordinator is there to make sure all the ducks are in a row to make sure the transaction closes smoothly and to make sure all the paperwork is filed correctly so they can't sue you later".
That was the biggest WAD of BS I've ever heard in my life. First of all, it's a realtor's job to be the transaction coordinator, or at least someone in their office is. That's what the 3% commission to them pays for! Secondly, it doesn't matter WHO handles the transaction or HOW the transaction is handled. If a buyer decides to sue you because of something you didn't disclose, a transaction coordinator is not going to prevent or stop that from happening. And what's to say their transaction coordinator doesn't make mistakes or slip up from time to time.
So, in summary, I felt like i was being taken for a ride by a fast talking salesman, for that reason I would never consider using them to sell my house.
djrobsd
I can see that if you have a problem with a fee, letting the representative know but sounds to me like there is a confidence problem here.
This guy is a sales representative. His job is to close sales not to gather up informaiton. Yo0u should have done that on your own in a pre sales process. Talking to people that have used the service. Checking the BBB. What is he suppose to say when you want to look material over, OK I'll check back in with you. Your comment was a complete cop out. I'd fire that guy if he that was his approach. Youer reluctance to sign was the fee structure. How stating "I do not like the fee structure and feel that it is not an industry practice. This give me concern about using your services."
You mentioned in your previous post that they guarantee a sale. What was the disclaimer on that. Isn't that the real reason you were meeting with the rep.
According to every poster on this site this is a bad market to sell in. A buyer is going to need real convincing. How would you feel if you selected an agent who each time he took a good prospect to your home left thte sale on the table becasue he wsa shy or time to ask for the deal. This does not suggest they should be rude and if this gentleman was than that is uncalled for but if he is a little pushy than that is not a bad sign but probably a good one. If it was an interview process it would be precisely what would have me go with a rep as oppose to not going with one.
Sounds to me like you have that type of personality that whenever you walk off the car lot you are still looking to make sure you weren't taken rather than enjoying the ride.
Instead of focusing on the $600 fee I would be focusing on the more important issue of selling my home for top dollar. If you don't think that they can sell your home I would be reluctant to sign a contract. This would hold true for a discounter the same as a full service person. If on the other hand you are electing not to do business because a sales rep is doing his job of probing to find out the reason for resistance than I think you need to prioritize your decision making criteria.
First of all, I don't think you understand what my beef with this guy is, let me summarize.
He stated something along the lines of "it's just a standard DRE contract", but yet there was a $695 fee in there that if you did not scan closely with your eyes, you would probably miss, and then be subject to pay. That's not a "Standard" fee in the real estate business, it's something typically found with a discount broker, not a full service broker that's charging 6% commission.
To me, if a realtor is going to make a promise on TV such as "you can cancel at any time if you're not satisfied" which is what he USED to say, but I don't think he's saying any more, and then he automatically puts a $995 cancellation fee in his contract, he's contradicting himself, and should not be given the time of day.
I do business the old fashioned way, which is you disclose everything up front to the person you are doing business with, and not try and hide anything. If you tell me "it's just the standard contract", and then you add in some hidden costs to the "Standard" contract, then you're not very ethical.
So for me, this is not just the fact that he was pushy, it's also an ethical question. If they are this unethical in signing a deal with me, then what are they going to do during the sales and negotiation process?
And for the record, I did tell him I wasn't willing to pay the fee, and he said "if that's your only concern, i'll remove it."
Seems like you are contradicting yourself. The contract is stating right upfront that they have charges. Doesn't seem to be hidden in any fine print here because it jumped off the page and you questioned him on it. You didn't feel this was reasonable and negotiated this out. Sounds like you are doing smart business.
I still don't see anything in your statement about their capability of selling your home. I thought they had a guarantee to sell or they would buy it from you. Still seems like you are focused on a negotiable fee.
If I were a home seller right now I would be offering an extra 1 or 2 % to get a home sold especially if I was firm on my askig price. The bottom line is I am either going to come in lower by 5% than comparable homes on the market or I am going to generate traffic by incentivizing the agents to sell my home.
Standard is a relative term. Standard lighting use to be the sun, then was a candle and today is a lightbulb. I would reccommend being flexible and open minded. If you don't think their system is going to work then I would take a pass.
You didn't know this repfrom a hole in the wall. You don;'t know the realators who post on this sight but you ahve a ton of dialog from their posts. Why wouldn't you call on them if you want something "tandard" Most people start the hiring with a referral.
Re: the transaction coordinator fee, I just got a reimbursement check for this very fee from a legal company that specializes in class action lawsuits.
The RE company was Coldwell Banker. Everyone who closed escrow with them during a certain time frame (I believe it was two years) got a $200 refund check, whether the fee was part of their escrow paperwork or not.
I agree with the OP that such fees should be part of the Realtor's commission and not an add-on.
I don't like fees any more than the next person. But there are different interest here. Plenty of home sellers are looking for discounts, rebates etc. I am not going to bag on them for doing so and if it is agreed to by the selling agent then good for the customer and bad for the agent. Likewise if a realator has a better system for selling a home and wants to ask for aaddional compensation then good for the seller and bad for the client.
Here is my question to you. If someone guaranteed to move you home in 10 days or pay you upfront full asking price for the home what is that worth to you. If they said 6% plus 1000$ fee, in this market I would probably pay. 2 year ago not a chance.
Hahaha, I'd pay the $1000 fee!!! But they aren't buying people's homes any more. The only time they will "Buy" a home is if someone wants to buy your home that already has another house, they will "make a guaranteed offer" on their home so they can buy yours. My guess is they probably offer 10-20% below the appraised value so they don't loose their shirts on that guarantee.
You mention if a realtor has a better system then they deserve to charge fees. I agree to a certain extent, but I think that TV and newspaper ads have deceived people into thinking that Battiata can sell your house. The truth is in the numbers, and after looking at MLS data for him, for every home he sells there is another one he doesn't. So, my theory is that he just takes as many listings as he can within reason, and hopes that a certain percentage of them sell.
To me, this could work, if the right buyer for my home happened to be watching his TV commercial at the time, but if not, I think going with him would be a bad thing because he wouldn't be networking with other agents and calling all of his past clients to try and sell my home. When you have 60 listings you don't have time for all that, but when you're a well established and respected realtor with a small number of listings, with a lot of contacts in the business, I think that can go a lot further in getting a home sold....
Just my theory of course, I'm by no means an expert here. ;)
This is an entirely differnt story. I am with you here. I count my coins and if they are looking for a fee, and you have no reason to think that they are doing anything differnt than the next guy or if the sales agent hasn't conveyed the value add, than I'm in your camp. I think it was a different psoter who stated the guareanted to buy you home so to me that seems like a pretty enticing piece to explore. Hopefully I didn't ruffle your feathers here. I think I have a better idea of the situation now.
"When you have 60 listings you don't have time for all that, but when you're a well established and respected realtor with a small number of listings, with a lot of contacts in the business, I think that can go a lot further in getting a home sold...."
djrobsd The odds that the agent you list with has somebody that he or she knows who will buy your house near the price you want is very slim. It does happen sometimes. Mostly the MLS and the price sells the house. There are other ways as long as the price is right and you can get some exposure. All the mystique and hype are to be taken with a grain of salt. That is mostly about Realtors trying to compete for your attention and has nothing to do with selling a house.
And...as long as I am butting in. Ray you kind of suggested that the seller look at a Realtor on this blog. It almost seemed like an admonishment. I think all the Realtors here would understand that people do not always want to include a known entity in their business affairs. Even friends,friends of friends or fellow bloggers. Nice of you to go to bat but it really is something to leave on an "each to his own" basis..IMHO.
So, Rustico, would it be easy to assume:
1- Home is priced right
2- Good pictures (12) and virtual tour of the home
3- MLS Listing
= Sale of the house regardless of the realtor I hire?
In that case, it doesn't matter if I go with the best realtor in town or the worst...
What are the stats anyway? Does anyone have the stats from the NAR?
Also, can someone with MLS access find out how many of Battiata's listings actually were sold by his office? He seems to tout that he gets 50-100 phone calls a day from his ads, and that he shows buyers his homes first before showing them MLS inventory.... So he should have a lot of homes sold by his MLS ID# right?
Here are your stats:
55 closed in 2007 of which his team sold 5.
9 currently in escrow of which his team sold 1.
Thats about 10% in both cases.
1- Home is priced right
2- Good pictures (12) and virtual tour of the home
3- MLS Listing
* that is a good start....
= Sale of the house regardless of the realtor I hire?
Nothing is guaranteed. This also depends as much on you as the Realtor. Are you going to know what good advice is and take it?
"In that case, it doesn't matter if I go with the best realtor in town or the worst..."
I wouldn't go that far. I would say the difference between experienced realtors, in their ability to perform the important aspects of selling you house is minimal, regardless of style or appearances or what kind of office they come from. Selling a house isn't rocket science, as so many here are fond of saying. Even newbies can do a decent job.I suggest you go with whoever you are comfortable with and forget about hype.
"Here are your stats:
55 closed in 2007 of which his team sold 5.
9 currently in escrow of which his team sold 1.
Thats about 10% in both cases."
Those results are actually better than I would expect is average,perhaps their model does have something to do with it and Rustico eats crow. Do you know how it plays out market wide sdr? Based on my own experience I would guestimate 1 in 20. I would think in this market it is going to be even less of a normal occurrence? Stands to reason.
Rus if you throw in cancelleds, expireds, and withdrawns the numbers will go down... I am to lazy to do that right now though...
SD Realtor
Good point. It will go down significantly.....
Excellent observation SDR. No need to dig deeper. That explains it. Thanks.
Rustico
I'm suggesting that most realators come by referral as do most financial planners, life insurance agents etc. Personally, I am comfortable going with people I don't know because I have a fairly rigid screening process.
I simply suggested that if he was uncomfortable with this company's style, and he wanted more personal intereaction, that he start with someone he might be familiar with. I inferred that if he is meeting with someone he does not have a relationship with currently, that he probably does not have a network of people with real estate expertise. Therefore this site is probably as good as the yellow pages or the park bench to begin a discussion with someone.
I am sure your intentions are good Ray. The idea it self is fine.
While on this topic...I am not sure why someone would want to rush out and pay 6% to anyone. Isn't it common knowledge that 3.5-4.5 will do it? There is no need for the listing agent to take more than 2% or offer more that 2.5% to the cooperating broker.
Some people argue that higher commissions gives incentive to the buyer's agent. I don't think it is necessary because buyers have so much information available today and are spoon feeding their agents properties to look at. The agent can hardly refuse to show them because of a lower commission and shouldn't anyway. There could be some effect of lower or higher commissions on cooperating brokers but I doubt it is much.
There have been articles in the paper about money and cars being given to agents to sell certain properties. I personally think that is just wrong.
You know what else is wrong.... My phone started ringing at 7:45am this morning and hasn't stopped... Because my listing expired with my old realtor, and even though she removed the phone # from the listing, they were obviously still able to get my # from somewhere and they won't leave me alone. I won't even answer the phone, but it sucks because now my business is on hold since I use my cell phone for my business too, and I simply don't have time today to field off agents.... Oops, I wish my realtor would have disclosed to me that whatever phone # I give her will be solicited by other realtors.... This is just total BS.
djrob that totally sucks. Many realtors, including myself NEVER put the phone number for the client in the listing. Even with that said, when I have had listings expire or cancel, my clients tell me that they two are solicited pretty rigorously. Many of these bottom feeders use services to get your phone number. It sucks 100%.
Definitely call your agent or broker and have them get into the expired listing and put in big bold letters DO NOT SOLICIT CLIENT in the remarks field....It may help but since the listing is already expired, it probably will not. You want those comments put in the listing prior to expiration.
Also next listing do not have the agent put your number in the listing. That will help a little bit but not much. Just know, even if you did not have your number posted, it is very likely that these guys would have found it, and you still would be getting solicited. I have had people tell me that agents even came to the house.
SD Realtor
I am a little late to the game here. But here it goes anyway.
You are right. There are plenty of agents who can get top dollar and do it without using a Seller's fear of penalty. If he doesn't put flyers out, do open houses etc, then what marketing is he doing for you and only you, since you are the one he is charging. In essence, if you cancel, you would be paying for their very large marketing campaign not for your individual marketing services.
I am a Realtor. My belief is that if you sell houses, then why put a cancellation charge in your agreement. You have that clause because you have some expected failure rate. Here's a number: Battiata Group had 182 Expired Listings, 2 Withdrawn Listings and 147 Cancelled Listings and 656 Sold. This data is from the MLS. That is a success rate of 50.4%. You would be better off hiring a new, hungry agent who will work their tail off for you. They would have about a 60% chance of selling your house. In a Seller's market it is very easy to say as an agent you get top dollar. If you really want a great agent find one who sells homes in your neighborhood consistently. Having the most listings doesn't sell your home, having the most closed sales does. You can even ask for their cancelled and expired listings to check there success rate.
My real concern is Short Sales. As an agent I recently put in an offer with "Agent New" at the Battiata Group (I will protect his real identity). Agent New had a great sales price on a Short Sale. After questioning him about the status, he realized that my questions were more in depth and were above his knowledge base. He got angry and hung up saying he was too busy too talk to me. Has anyone seen the new commercials Battiata has? He is now the Short Sale expert. Actually, Agent New is the "expert". All of the short sale listings are under his second agent name. Do you know Agent New hasn't sold a short sale yet. He doesn't even have one in pending status. He did what in our industry or most industries call a "bait and switch". He lowballed the sales price by $200k below market value. Upon questioning, he said he has already received that value from the lender. When asked who the lender was, he said Countrywide. Well, I have worked at least 5 Short Sales with Countrywide and the negotiator will not even talk to you for at least 30 days after receipt of an offer. Well, I thought Agent New had an inside contact. So, because my client really wanted this house I put in the offer against my better judgement. To my suprise, he counted at $150k above his asking price. So much for getting his price point. My buyer walked away. I ask you, did Agent A do his client justice? We are looking at other homes not listed by the Short Sale experts "The Battiata Group".
Anyone who says they are the expert, try again. If you have a Short Sale, find someone who has closed short sale homes. If you find someone who has worked with your lender, even better. Get proof. Ask them for the lender payoff letter. I have worked with 10 different lenders and Service Providers. Each transaction is different because investor guidelines are different. For instance, GMAC gave 2 week approval on one transaction but took 45 days on another, because of the different investor guidelines. Sorry to digress here, but, as you can see I am passionate about Short Sale "experts". Because there is so much at stake here. You have distraught clients who need our help and in many cases are desperate.
Good Bye for now.
Dear Critter:
My agent works for Coldwell Banker. I never received a check because I never paid that fee. My realtor always covered my fees for me at the closing.
She said she always had a problem with passing that fee to her clients.
Bye for now.
I just watched Battiata's goofy commercial and decided to see how he's doing these days.
86 active listings......not bad
ZERO listings put into escrow since January 1st
ZERO buyers put into escrow since January 1st.
That's gotta sting!
When business was easy their off the shelf marketing strategies, (they dont create them they buy a sales process that was created by an agent up in Canada) worked. It offers lots of bells and whistles with high perceived value but what it is truly intended to do is generate leads for them not sell your home. I guess we seeing that now.