 | ||||||
San Diego Housing Bubble News and Analysis |
||||||
~Navigation~~User login~~RSS~ |
Anyone heard about HR 1728User Forum Topic
Submitted by socrattt on July 7, 2009 - 10:23pm
I received an email in regards to HR 1728 as I am involved in moving land that is not being used for our alternative energy projects. In this market we have had to get creative and owner finance on some of our deals so that we could move the land. Now it looks like I won't be able to do that again. What the hell is going on in this country? I would love to hear feedback from others about this info. I find it very interesting how much democratic power is behind the bill!! The U.S. Senate is considering a bill that would severely limit the way you do business as a creative investor and, more importantly, is an inexcusable infringement of the property rights of all Americans. HR 1728, which you can view in its entirety here: www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h... It covers a lot of different topics but here's the important part. You will NOT be able to sell more than 1 property with owner financing every 3 years! Their definition of Seller financing includes land contract, owner-held mortgage or wrap-around mortgage-and who knows if they'll define lease/options as owner financing, too? It means that you will have to comply with a long, confusing, and penalty-filled piece of national legislation. Here are the types of transactions that you would be restricted from doing more than once every 36 months: - Selling YOUR OWN HOME using a land contract or owner-held mortgage so that you can get a quicker sale, higher sale price, or better rate of interest than is available in other investments - Carrying back owner-held second mortgages on investment properties that you sell - Doing any kind of installment sale on residential properties including homes, condos, mobile homes, and even raw land that is zoned residential The bottom line is, this law has to be stopped and it has to be stopped NOW. Here's why: 1. Congress is trying to regulate the wrong thing. The deals we make are not "loans"-they don't involve the transfer of money, or points or closing costs or adjustable rates or any of the other things that caused the mortgage crisis to begin with. They are INSTALLMENT SALES. We don't give money to the "borrower" and wait for it to be paid back: we give a property to the borrower and wait for it to be paid off. Regulating this will have no effect on the foreclosure crisis 2. It is a completely unacceptable infringement on private property rights. When I own a piece of property and find a ready, willing, and able purchaser, I should be able to control the sale of that property within the existing laws of my state, which already regulate the interest rate that I am able to charge and some of the terms of the sale. The government does not have the right to tell us that we need special licensing to sell our own properties; nor do they have the right to further regulate the terms under which we can sell or burden small investors with a new set of rules that we can't comply with. Not only will this new law, if passed as written, effectively choke off owner financing as an exit strategy for you, it will also take away housing choice for your buyers. The millions of Americans who've been through foreclosure in the last 3 years can't buy a house in any way OTHER THAN to negotiate owner financing with a seller-and HR 1728 would greatly reduce the number of properties available in this way. Millions of potential home owners who would otherwise be able to re-start the process of paying off a home, and get the tax advantages of ownership, will be reduced to renting until they are able to qualify for bank financing. This bill has already passed the House and is waiting for Senate approval. Please contact your senator via email, Fax or US mail and let them know that this law MUST NOT PASS in its current form.
|
~Finance and investing~*Investment advisory services and securities offered through Girard Securities, Inc., member SIPC/FINRA. ~Recent articles~~Active forum topics~
Sponsored Links
~San Diego median home $/sq.ft.~
|
||||
| © 2004-2008 piggington enterprises llc | terms of use | privacy policy | powered by Drupal | ||||||
 |  |  | ||||
Yeah I have seen this bill...
Scary as can be... That is okay though because the government knows better then we do. They are much more efficient and streamlined.
lol. more government regulation. Pretty soon, you'll need a permit to piss in a public restroom.
SDR, this bill would literally put our company out of business. We have always had to find a way to get creative and work with different alternative energy developers and the only way is structuring deals that have some sort of private financing involved. This just blows my mind. What scares me even more is that it has been around for a couple of months and I just learned about it today!
Our government is sick and twisted and makes absolutely no sense. They are destroying what is left of the entrepreneurs. I can't imagine this country can prosper without continuing to allow forward thinking. Obama and his clan are backwards!!
Flu, this goes well beyond regulation this is complete control. I am guessing this is a way to force buyers to use banks only! They completely forget that half of this country couldn't qualify to buy a dozen eggs.
Between this stupid piece of legislation and cap and trade, the country will be in the throes of a depression in no time. I think that is exactly what they want. Everyone will be dependent on them for everything. I will call and e-mail tomorrow to add my voice to yours to stop the continued over reach of Big Brother.
Socratt I posted about this bill a few months ago when I was talking about the power grab. (Power meaning energy)... Big Nancy has here hands all over this one...
It is really scary what is going on... What is scariest to me is that these pieces of legislation are not to easy to "undo" once they are put through no matter who is in office.
I was also thinking that this sort of stuff is much easier to sneak through in a low interest rate environment. Just think how much of a bottleneck this will be when rates are sky high. This pretty much puts the government in the catbirds seat to dictate any sort of financing unless privateers want to cut through the beauracracy.
What is scariest to me is that we are not even 7 months in yet and when guys like Al Franken become a senator to give a supermajority .... well....the fun has just begun.
I smell a real revolution in America and I think it's closer than it looks. Fortunately for our government we have created some of the dumbest and laziest people in the world. These number of imbeciles make up a good portion of our citizens, so maybe they have a bit of breathing room. The smart people like you and the rest of Piggs who understand how these laws will all but destroy business in America will eventually come out of the woodworks and demand that these policies be reversed. I will tell you one thing, I am getting more frustrated by the day and if this law passes I will make my voice known.
I agree. They have no idea how much discontent is out there and the level of backlash that will be unleashed. They are banking on Americans being lazy and unmotivated when it comes to activism. The public schools have been so dumbed down for so long, they are counting on no one being excited when there is no direct impact on the majority: "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist...." First they took over the banks; then they took over GM.
Your explanation of the bill is misleading.
Uh...yes, you will. But you'll have to be a licensed lender and follow all the rules that other licensed lenders follow.
It would be extraordinary circumstances for someone who is not in the business of lending to provide seller financing more than once every 3 years. If you are a house trader or a land trader and provide financing more than once in three years, you ARE in the business of lending money. Get your license, just like every other lender, and there is nothing in this bill that prohibits you from going about your business. If the licensing requirement is too much of a hassle, or following the rules that other lenders will follow in the normal course of business is too much of a hassle, then don't go into the lending business.
Uh...yes, you will. But you'll have to be a licensed lender and follow all the rules that other licensed lenders follow.
It would be extraordinary circumstances for someone who is not in the business of lending to provide seller financing more than once every 3 years. If you are a house trader or a land trader and provide financing more than once in three years, you ARE in the business of lending money. Get your license, just like every other lender, and there is nothing in this bill that prohibits you from going about your business. If the licensing requirement is too much of a hassle, or following the rules that other lenders will follow in the normal course of business is too much of a hassle, then don't go into the lending business.
SK, it's people like you confuse me! I am not lender I am alternative energy developer looking for creative ways to move land that we aren't utilizing for projects and also financing on some of the projects that are joint ventured. You make it sound as if I can just walk right into an office and hand in my application. Sorry SK, it doesn't work that way. Maybe you want to read some rules and see how difficult it actually is to become a lender (because we have) and then see much harder they are making it now.
I don't know what line of business you are in, but by your pathetic response to the bill I would have to assume you are clueless about the business world. I try to create jobs and every piece of legislation that our government has put together this year seems to throw in some fine print that is destroying the entrepreneurship of the US!!! Think before you write unless you are completely happy with us turning into a socialistic society!!
Socratt wrote:
I'm in the business of business, and have been for more than 30 years. As related to real estate, I've been a buyer, a broker, a builder, a developer, a manager, a lender, and a consultant to others doing all those things. Some of them aren't simple. And if this bill passes, lending may be a bit more complicated for some.
A couple points on your comment. When you are "looking for createive ways to move land that [you] aren't utilizing for projects", then you aren't in the business of an alternative energy developer anymore. You're doing something else. That "something else" may require that you gain or hire expertise that isn't required as part of your "alternative energy developer" business.
You made my point precisely. You want to be in the lending business, but you don't want to follow the rules that licensed lenders must follow. There are alternatives. Sell using traditional financing. Or acquire the expertise needed to do business as a lender. I'm quite sure the RE brokers here wouldn't be real sympathetic to you acting as both principle and broker in your deals without the required licensing. Why should lending be any different?
And your last sentence....the "socialist society". Sure has become a popular tag line, but as is often the case, it has no relevance. It's just a dirty word to throw at an idea you don't like. I'm much more of a libertarian capitalist than a socialist. But I have my limits. Too much free market without oversight created much of the economic problems we face. Regulation is not synonymous with socialism. In a complex economy, it is a cost of doing business.
The objective of this requirement is to prohibit unlicensed two-in-one RE investor / lender companies that flip properties and provide neg-am/NINJA financing to their buyers at the same time, without being subject to the same oversight as a real lender would be.
SK in CV is right, if you want to do business as a lender, come forward and declare yourself a lender.
I'm in the business of business, and have been for more than 30 years. As related to real estate, I've been a buyer, a broker, a builder, a developer, a manager, a lender, and a consultant to others doing all those things. Some of them aren't simple. And if this bill passes, lending may be a bit more complicated for some.
A couple points on your comment. When you are "looking for createive ways to move land that [you] aren't utilizing for projects", then you aren't in the business of an alternative energy developer anymore. You're doing something else. That "something else" may require that you gain or hire expertise that isn't required as part of your "alternative energy developer" business.
You made my point precisely. You want to be in the lending business, but you don't want to follow the rules that licensed lenders must follow. There are alternatives. Sell using traditional financing. Or acquire the expertise needed to do business as a lender. I'm quite sure the RE brokers here wouldn't be real sympathetic to you acting as both principle and broker in your deals without the required licensing. Why should lending be any different?
And your last sentence....the "socialist society". Sure has become a popular tag line, but as is often the case, it has no relevance. It's just a dirty word to throw at an idea you don't like. I'm much more of a libertarian capitalist than a socialist. But I have my limits. Too much free market without oversight created much of the economic problems we face. Regulation is not synonymous with socialism. In a complex economy, it is a cost of doing business.
I personally don't think you see the big picture. Let's focus on my joint venture projects that "I am utilizing the land". Should I honestly apply for a license in all 50 states, just in case I work on a project with a number of different companies that are tied to corps in different states? SK, feel free to admit that some portions of this bill don't make sense at all. How would we be referred to as a predatory lender?
If you really want to get technical then sure we are lenders, but in terms of what we do it has nothing to do with the lending world. We are simply using creative ways to help grow and expand our business. That is the key problem here, we are destroying creative thinking. There still has to be room for money to be made and controlling everything (not just regulating), as the current administration is doing, just doesn't work.
Your mention of socialism as a tag line is a joke. How can you say that? Do you have a lack of understanding of how much support our government is giving to the very people that destroyed our economic system, i.e. banks, etc... Don't tell me that socialism is a tag line because it's real and it's rampant!! Wake up SK, you might need to step out of the CV bubble your are in!!!
Let's focus on your joint ventures. If you're lending in all 50 states, YOU ARE A LENDER! If your JV projects include seller financing, YOU ARE A LENDER! It might not be your main business, but if you want to do it, you have to follow the rules. Just like retailers who offer in house financing have to follow consumer financing rules. Just like lawyers who provide escrow services have to follow rules. It doesn nothing to destroy creative thinking. Go create all you want. But if it's a significant part of your business, then why on earth wouldn't you want to gain the expertise to do it correctly? Why fight it?
And you're going to have to explain to me how "socialism" fits into this discussion. It doesn't. This is about consumer protection, not redistribution of resources. Nor does the "socialism" tag fit giving support to the banks and financial institutions which were part and parcel to the economic crisis. When government is all about big business, that would be facism, not socialism. But apperently socialism has a better ring to it, so keep using it, whether it fits or not.
SK, you should be a politician!! You'll make an excuse for everything and make the context fit just perfect for any occasion.
According to you, you wrote the definition of facism and socialism, so why argue? I refuse to waste my time with someone who seems to know everything!!! Last I checked donating to the banks while controlling the funds disbursed seems to be socialism, but what I do I know? You are the kind of human that will argue your point until you win and the other guy backs down!! I don't have time, which you obviously do. I am trying to win an uphill battle against a new agenda, which involves work. My creativity is slowly dying thanks to a mindset like yours and Nancy Pelosi!!
LOL Socratt
It seems you are the one making the excuses of why you shouldn't have to follow rules that everyone else, who do what you do, must follow. Of why your creativity is being killed by others.
I'm just using generally accepted definitions of the words instead of making up new ones. What you don't know, apparently, is what socialism is and means. A rabid idealogue, I am not. And I know better than to attempt rational discussion with a religious zealot. Have a good day.
Flu, this goes well beyond regulation this is complete control. I am guessing this is a way to force buyers to use banks only! They completely forget that half of this country couldn't qualify to buy a dozen eggs.
Exactly right, Socratt.
If everyone used direct/private lenders, it would destroy the banking industry at a time when it is already weakened.
Some would say that our entire economy is run for the benefit of banks. They probably have more influence over our legislators than any other industry. They will not go down without a fight.
Just for point of reference. Here are the definitions of Fascism and Socialism as defined in the American Heritage Dictionary.
fascism
–noun A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
socialism
–noun Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
IIRC from my college Poli Sci classes - Fascism tends to favor corporations and corporatism at the expense of the citizens. Socialism tends to favor citizens at the expense of the corporations and corporate ownerships.
You guys & gals can argue about whether this is socialism or fascism.
I'd call it a kleptocratic oligarchy with no ideology other than keeping and gaining more power that employees any pragmatic approach that will help achieve their goals.
From an academic standpoint it definitely tips to the side of fascism which is essentially corporatism or the merger of state and corporations.
Looking at it through an ideological lens you can find what ever you want.
It's just a bunch of very wealthy guys with politicians as the fall guys trying to keep shit from falling apart and doing a poor job at it I might add;)
The right is going to go ape shit over the next couple years as unemployment and bankruptcies mount and the state has to come in a do something.
Real unemployment is 20% and rising. You push that up to 30%+ and all the landless, jobless peasants will be begging for the state to step in.
Fascism, socialism, all mindless epithets in this context. I am more libertarian than anything else, but you're not exactly laying out your case very coolly and objectively, socratt. Get rid of the opinions and labels and just lay out the actual facts. Maybe you're right. I just can't read past the hot air to see.
I have a small company that sells medical equipment. With the downturn in the economy, times have been really tough for us, so on the side we've been performing surgery as well. It's been a great source of revenue, and we particularly enjoy doing those breast augmentations.
Now I'm told that we actually have to have a license for all of this. It would take me 6 or 8 years to go to medical school. I don't have the time for that. And I hear those board exams are really tough!
We have always had to find a way to get creative and work with different customers, and the only way is structuring deals that have some sort of surgery involved. This just blows my mind. What scares me even more is that it has been around for a couple of decades and I just learned about it today!
Our government is sick and twisted and makes absolutely no sense. They are destroying what is left of the entrepreneurs. I can't imagine this country can prosper without continuing to allow forward thinking. Obama and his clan are backwards!!
Government regulation is not the equivalent of socialism.
The test for socialism is simple: Who owns the economic capacity of the nation? More specifically, who controls what is produced, and who decides how to distribute value from that production?
If the answer is government, then you have socialism.
Almost all business in the United States is privately owned. We have stock markets and shareholders. The shareholders and the management they choose make the business decisions and they distribute the profits. (Not surprisingly, they always decide to distribute the profits to themselves.)
The recent government involvement in GM and the financial sector are tiny steps in the direction of socialism. For this and other reasons (e.g. taxes), the US is not purely capitalist, but we are still a very long way from the point we could even suggest our nation is socialist.
I appreciate the discussion here. I've learned something: If I ever want to be a predatory lender, I'll just label my company as an alternative energy producer and I won't be subject to any rules.
PRI and SV, let's say an owner has two rental homes all with plenty of equity and he would like to move these homes. He was able to find two separate buyers that were unable to qualify for a conventional loan but the owner was willing to carry back a note on these properties. Does this make him a lender? How can anyone argue that he would be considered a lender? Sure if you want to use technical terms like SK uses he would probably be considered a lender and a criminal, but get real.
Now on to PRI's ridiculous comments. If you had any understanding of the business you wouldn't make such an ignorant comment. We don't do very many owner (company) financed deals, but we do more than 1 every 3 years. We are doing our part trying to create jobs in a down economy and it seems that at every turn our government is doing a great job at making it more difficult for companies to succeed.
SK, I am very impressed that you can assume I am a religious zealot from my comments above, but call me whatever makes you feel better!!!
SK, I am very impressed that you can assume I am a religious zealot from my comments above, but call me whatever makes you feel better!!!
Your religion is your right wing ideology, which has adopted "socialism" as the nasty label du jour. It is based on faith, not reason. Which makes it perfectly analagous to religion.
I voted for Obama because he is the Messiah!!! And everyone else was doing it!!!!
SK, keep up the good work my friend, we know how you think and don't try to pawn off the fact that you are some sort of moderate! My definition of socialism has nothing to do with my religious beliefs and again I am not sure where that comes from. You seem to be one of the only posters here that is trying to fight this topic of HR 1728 and claim the bill to be fair. All I did was bring up the facts and all you have done is contest it the entire time!! I think you are doing a great job convincing yourself that Obama is an amazing President!!! You are one of the few Piggs left that still believes. Sweet dreams!!!!
P.S. I love how you didn't even address the question!!
A picture speaks a thousand words: The United States is neither socialist nor fascist. And this graph reflects values after the takeover of GM.
(Via)
So while the Obama admin may be "more socialist" than prior admins, it's certainly not the grand socialist takeover that some on this board like to believe.
For socrattt:
I'm quite sure I haven't claimed I was a moderate. I'm not even close. But neither have I expressed any ideological mantras, least of all "Obama is the messiah". I live in the real world. Faith, like yours, is fantasy. Whether conservative or liberal, or Christianity or Islam, faith is religion. I have none in anything other than the capacity of the human mind. I am a believer in almost nothing.
You should have noted, up to this point, I haven't even expressed any opionon on the bill. I certainly don't think it's fair. But real politik rarely is. First I pointed out your failure to fairly represent what the bill does, and secondly, the flaws in your arguments against the bill.
If I missed one of your questions, I apologize. It wasn't intentional. After reviewing the thread, I still don't see it. If you're interested, restate it, I'll be glad to answer.
AFX, I love the pie chart, can you make it bigger? I'm really trying to paint that false picture in my head that you posted. Did you know that Obama just took office less than 6 months ago? That means it takes time for these pie charts to change. I already know your views on politics, so I would rather leave that alone, I think the pie speaks for you. Now please read the topic and tell me what you think. AFX, do you think this bill makes sense? Enough of you, SK and PRI accusing the rest of us for being religious zealots because we feel this bill is a bit too much!!!
afx114, do you have the same chart for Sweden? Would be more interesting if we have a frame of reference. I know a few Swedish companies and they're not owned by the Swedish government.
I'm quite sure I haven't claimed I was a moderate. I'm not even close. But neither have I expressed any ideological mantras, least of all "Obama is the messiah". I live in the real world. Faith, like yours, is fantasy. Whether conservative or liberal, or Christianity or Islam, faith is religion. I have none in anything other than the capacity of the human mind. I am a believer in almost nothing.
To each his own and I commend you for saying that you are a believer in almost nothing. Life must me really tough for you and I hope that you find something to believe in!! I will tell you one thing I believe in. I believe our current administration is failing to take the necessary steps to pull this country out of a depression!! Until the day the US learns to reward hard work and penalize those who do nothing more than take advantage of a system, this country will never prosper!!
As to your Faith is fantasy comment, I wish I had a moment to share some of my life experiences growing up around a few devil worshippers. It wasn't all that fun and what they were playing with wasn't a game, I promise you that!!!!